The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: wtr100 on October 19, 2010, 02:08:40 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_gays_in_military_recruiting_1
Is that the sound of KaBar's being sharpened?
;D
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Honest question. No judgement, just curious. Would you really care if a guy or gal in your unit were gay, as long as they did their job and kept their behavior on the professional level? Just wondering,
FQ13
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Probably not. BUT Homosexual behavior goes against the morals and values of the armed services.
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No different than having men and women serving together as far as I'm concerned.
If he's gay does that mean he'll rape you? I just don't get the big deal, but thats just me.
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I wouldn't want to shower with a homosexual.
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I wouldn't want to shower with a homosexual.
its only a issue if one of you makes it one.
while you can't control other people, one good ass kicking tends to get the point across.
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For the most part, they want to be left alone. If they make advances and you do not respond positively they usually leave you alone. I know...I was hit on while in a musical at a local theater!
FWIW
Richard
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I'm ok with it as long as the hetero men are permitted to shower with the hetero women, being as the homosexuals currently get to shower with their gender of choice. But that will never happen.
Real world: it's a MORALE issue, not a MORAL one. In a perfect world, it shouldn't matter. But just like I disagree with lowering standards to allow women/small statured minorities on police and fire forces, I disagree with doing anything that will lower the effectiveness of a fighting force. This certainly will.
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I served with homosexual men and lesbian women. Granted they weren't open about it but we all knew and for the most part, no one cared.
If anyone in them military thinks they haven't served with a homosexual individual, WAKE UP!
Today, the military is lowering physical enlistment standards to accommodate for the fact that our kids are FAT! If anything is going to reduce the fighting effectiveness, being obese certainly has more negative effect than who we sleep with.
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I don't really care one way or the other. The problem I've got with the whole situation is that a federal judge can override military regs. How long will it be before the chain of command undergoes judicial review?
What needs to happen, is an Admiral or General needs to stand up to the Judiciary. Their career would be over in the military, but just starting politically. Military oversight is a function of Congress, not federal judges.
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Served with a homosexual while I was in the service.
We were in the 3rd Inf. Div. G2 section and he did the job fine.
He was in a room of his own. The only single bunk room in the barracks and I'm sure he was placed there to avoid concerns.
He also was up at around 2:30 in the morning to shower and shave so he seldom encountered anyone there.
I had no problem at all with him.
The G2 asked me if I thought he was homosexual and I told him I was sure of it. saw him necking in his car with a guy from the next company. G2 asked if he did his job and I said he did it very well. G2 asked of he ever gave me any problems and I told him he never gave any of us any trouble. He remained in the section until I rotated out.
But....my question is where does everyone shower??
Women aren't expected to shower with men and I'd say the easy rule is that no one should be required to shower with anyone who might find them a "sexual interest"....... and that boils down to that straight men and women still can use a separate group shower, but any gay soldier would get a private shower.
Now, I assume GI's still use communal showers? I know a lot may have changed since I was in back in the last half of the 60's.
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You've never showered with a girl? I mean this in a platonic way of course. I was always into outdoor sports. Canoeing, backpackpacking, climbing, sailing etc. The clubs in HS and college, as well as FTXs in ROTC were coed. By day 3, no one cared. The rule was "Japanese privacy". By that, I mean, when you shared the creek or hose or whatever was there, you just kept your eyes and hands to yourself. The girl you would have loved to have seen naked under normal circumstances? On the backpacking trip or kayak trip, you just didn't notice, because to do so would have been severly uncool and made you a pariah. Maybe its a generational thing (I'm 40), maybe its just a bunch of college kids scamming a van and gear from the school and eating out of cans to make a trip, but there was a definate set of rules. No scamming on the trip.
Oddly, when I went on the Old Man's Mid-Life crisis rafting trip in the Grand Canyon, the same rules applied. Peeing off the raft or skinny diping in the river to bathe was ok, even among staid middle aged types. The same rules applied. No one was on display, no one wanted attention, we all just wanted a bath. This wasn't a hippie commune, just a random commercial raft trip with 15 guests and 6 guides that had never met before. I guess the point is, if there is an understanding of what the rules are in a given set of circumstances, normal expectations fall away. The idea of my dad getting naked in public? Hell, I'd bet the farm against it. There, where everyone was quick and discreet and it was just something you did every day or two? It didn't phase him. Am I just weird, or does this make sense?
FQ13
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I work in a chemical plant that makes what is essentially powder and dust. By the end of a 12 hour shift it's all over you. We have community showers, at any one time at shift change there is 4 or 5 guys in each of the 2 showers(one in each locker room). Nobody pays any attention to the others, you even have the odd guy that walks around toweling himself off. Just no big deal. And yes we have and do have gays working there. Do they get there own shower house?
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Morals have no place in the profession of killing.
I don't care if the guy fucks chickens as long as he does his job and draws his own share of the incoming.
However, Sodomy, (oral or anal sex ) are criminal acts under the UCMJ, an admitted Homo has implicated himself in a criminal activity, 5th Amendment case. That's why BJ Clinton went with the "DADT" idea.
And No, FQ, I don't do "Platonic" coed showers, if she's in there with me she is going to spend some time against the wall. ;D
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Morals have no place in the profession of killing.
I don't care if the guy fucks chickens as long as he does his job and draws his own share of the incoming.
However, Sodomy, (oral or anal sex ) are criminal acts under the UCMJ, an admitted Homo has implicated himself in a criminal activity, 5th Amendment case. That's why BJ Clinton went with the "DADT" idea.
And No, FQ, I don't do "Platonic" coed showers, if she's in there with me she is going to spend some time against the wall. ;D
Be very glad you didn't grow up in my generation. You would have had your "against the wall" time. You just wouldn't have enjoyed it very much. Do I need to repost those "Women of the IDF" pictures, or are you following me? ;D
FQ13
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Morals have no place in the profession of killing.
I don't care if the guy fucks chickens as long as he does his job and draws his own share of the incoming.
However, Sodomy, (oral or anal sex ) are criminal acts under the UCMJ, an admitted Homo has implicated himself in a criminal activity, 5th Amendment case. That's why BJ Clinton went with the "DADT" idea.
And No, FQ, I don't do "Platonic" coed showers, if she's in there with me she is going to spend some time against the wall. ;D
(http://media.myspacepimper.com/content/image/funny/funny_1022.jpg)
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That one showers alone, even the cockroaches leave when that pig waddles in.
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now I'll never get to sleep!!!!!!!!!!
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Banned! I want him banned!
M'lette, please, my God!. I just can't describe the horror. If you won't ban him, at least assign him to scrub all those "hard to reach places". :P :o :o :o
FQ13 ;D
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That one showers alone, even the cockroaches leave when that pig waddles in.
to be fair I don't think there is room in that shower for a cockroach.
to give you a idea on the scale.( yeah like you need to know) the most common standard shower sizes
32x32 36x36, 34x36 and 34x48.
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The way that I view this issue is it is another one of many smaller erosion of what is right and decent in this Country/world.
We live in such a litigious society, where everyone is so damned concerned about being Politically correct...and god forbid you might hurt someones feelings.
I have no problem with those who have chosen a gay lifestyle...but that sure as hell doesn't mean that I want to see it or be exposed to it on a daily basis.
As consenting adults if you decide you wish to have a love affair with a shaved goat...hey...Knock yourself out.
Just do it behind closed doors and don't subject me or my family to your perversions...In other words keep it to yourself.
Gays openly serving will only weaken our military and will hurt recruitments in the future....Gessh whats next? Are we going to be flying a pink banner in battle.
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Is TAB really Red?
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FIFY
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Is TAB is really Red? SICK!
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I'm sure I'm going to offend someone but hey I do that alot. I can give you the perspective of a couple of the current crop of Marines. We've raised them to be respectful but think for themselves, speak their mind and "too damn bad if you can't handle an alternate point of view".
Both of them are of the opinion that they don't give a rat's ass what you like in the sex department as long as you are doing your job and respecting your people. According to them this is a much debated/discussed issue among both the grunts and the pogs. They say that most of the service people they know agree with them. My oldest says that his unit lost a highly respected, very talented, squared away NCO because some "bible spouting cracker(his words)" reported to higher command that she was gay. When command investigated the complaint she refused to lie about her orientation and was discharged. As far as he is concerned the Marine that clearly demonstrated the values of honor and integity was the "flithy queer" not the self proclaimed "christian". Both boys say that the radical "my god, my morals, by my interpertaion ONLY" crowd do more damage to unit cohesion than any gay service person could ever do. To qoute the younger of the two; "If a queer is crossing the line he stops when you tell him his attention is not welcome. When the "preachers" start up they get louder and nasty if you tell them you are not interested in their "annointed" version of christianity". Radical fundamentalist's; doesn't matter if they are "serving" God or Allah, always create more friction and hate than peace or love.
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TAB - tell me you had to search the net for that picture and that you didn't have it saved in you personal porn folder. :o
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FIFY
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Is TAB is really Red? SICK!
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I'm sure I'm going to offend someone but hey I do that alot. I can give you the perspective of a couple of the current crop of Marines. We've raised them to be respectful but think for themselves, speak their mind and "too damn bad if you can't handle an alternate point of view".
Both of them are of the opinion that they don't give a rat's ass what you like in the sex department as long as you are doing your job and respecting your people. According to them this is a much debated/discussed issue among both the grunts and the pogs. They say that most of the service people they know agree with them. My oldest says that his unit lost a highly respected, very talented, squared away NCO because some "bible spouting cracker(his words)" reported to higher command that she was gay. When command investigated the complaint she refused to lie about her orientation and was discharged. As far as he is concerned the Marine that clearly demonstrated the values of honor and integity was the "flithy queer" not the self proclaimed "christian". Both boys say that the radical "my god, my morals, by my interpertaion ONLY" crowd do more damage to unit cohesion than any gay service person could ever do. To qoute the younger of the two; "If a queer is crossing the line he stops when you tell him his attention is not welcome. When the "preachers" start up they get louder and nasty if you tell them you are not interested in their "annointed" version of christianity". Radical fundamentalist's; doesn't matter if they are "serving" God or Allah, always create more friction and hate than peace or love.
Somethings there I have tried to say before.
Northern Ireland is a classic example of your last point.
PS, It's spelled "pogue", and dates back to the turn of the century or earlier, refers to "poguee bait (candy), used to pay gay sailors for "service rendered". now used to refer to any rear echelon types.
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The problem with all of this is homosexuality is not a "mainstream" thought process, no matter how much they try to make it one. It never will be. You cannot force acceptance of a race or a given type of sexuality on someone. It never works. You watch how this whole thing with muslims in this country is going to go violent and bad as time progresses. The reason is most people don't like or want them around, period. You can banter on about all of the "good ones", just as you can about how harmless homosexuality is, or was. It doesn't matter because deep down most people don't like it or want it around them. And if you force it down their throats you'll get the same thing the dems are going to get on 11/2/10, slaughtered.
Race relations are worse now than they were 10 years ago. Mostly because of Hussein and Eric Holder and their anti white thinking and actions. Especially Holder with his antics within the Justice Department. They'll be even worse in another 10 years. Right or wrong, it's simply human nature and you'll never change it. Muslims are pushing themselves on to everyone while building up the hatred for it in most all non muslims. This will get nothing but worse as well. You cannot force cultural, racial, or religious integration on people. They don't like it, or want it. And if it continues to be forced upon them eventually they will react violently to it. If I were a homosexual, or a muslim I would certainly keep to myself about it. I sure as hell wouldn't dress up in leather shorts, lipstick, and dance in a parade, then wonder why I got the hell beat out of me. Some of these people need to think a little bit.
We now have co-ed aircraft carrier crews in the Navy. To serve what purpose? Look at all of the sexual harassment problems it creates. You stick 5,000+ people, most of which who are horny, young guys at sea for months at a time, then wonder in shock why there is grab ass taking place? Come on! All of this is nuts, and serves zero useful purpose in relationship to all of the problems it creates. All of this co-ed, multi cultural, homosexual, politically correct thinking is wasting time, money, and effort. And it is producing nothing but problems. Bill T.
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. All of this co-ed, multi cultural, homosexual, politically correct thinking is wasting time, money, and effort. And it is producing nothing but problems. Bill T.
Its producing 12-20% of our armed forces (depending on branch) in regards to gender, and a hell of a lot more than that in terms of race. It seems to me, the ones who want privileges are the conservative Christians who seem to think they have the right not to be exposed to things that offend them. Guess what? Its a big world out there. When you sign up you are exposed to all walks of life. You live with them, serve with them, and take orders from them. If you can't deal with that, don't join. Nobody's making you. It seems that the service is already an artificial environment. It's got customs, rules, pecking orders, traditions, uniforms, merit badges and haircuts that bear no resemblence to the normal world. Its that way for a very good reason. A well disciplined army is and always has been an example of social engineering geared to one purpose. Its designed to overcome two basics of human nature, the reluctance to kill and the fear of death. History proves it works. Compared to that? Letting girls in the clubhouse or gays in the barracks seems like small potatoes. Just sayin'.
FQ13
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Never bothered me. I didn't ask, they didn't tell, but ya could still tell, ya know?
They were always less trouble than the drunks, wife and kid beaters, bible thumpers, gangstas, rap, and country western fans, etc.
C'mon! Showering w somebody who thinks you have a nice butt is not the end of the world. Learn to handle that (bad pun intended) like ya handle all the other really tough stuff ya have to put up with.
The Republic will stand. Carry on.
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FIFY
______________________________________________
Is TAB is really Red? SICK!
______________________________________________
I'm sure I'm going to offend someone but hey I do that alot. I can give you the perspective of a couple of the current crop of Marines. We've raised them to be respectful but think for themselves, speak their mind and "too damn bad if you can't handle an alternate point of view".
Both of them are of the opinion that they don't give a rat's ass what you like in the sex department as long as you are doing your job and respecting your people. According to them this is a much debated/discussed issue among both the grunts and the pogs. They say that most of the service people they know agree with them. My oldest says that his unit lost a highly respected, very talented, squared away NCO because some "bible spouting cracker(his words)" reported to higher command that she was gay. When command investigated the complaint she refused to lie about her orientation and was discharged. As far as he is concerned the Marine that clearly demonstrated the values of honor and integity was the "flithy queer" not the self proclaimed "christian". Both boys say that the radical "my god, my morals, by my interpertaion ONLY" crowd do more damage to unit cohesion than any gay service person could ever do. To qoute the younger of the two; "If a queer is crossing the line he stops when you tell him his attention is not welcome. When the "preachers" start up they get louder and nasty if you tell them you are not interested in their "annointed" version of christianity". Radical fundamentalist's; doesn't matter if they are "serving" God or Allah, always create more friction and hate than peace or love.
+1 It's about the unit and completing the mission.
I have trained the Canadian and Dutch armies that allow openly gay soldiers. The Canadians are great troops and deal with it well.
The funniest story a warrant told me was the supply NCO was gay but a top soldier. He never hit on anyone in the unit.
Over beers someone asked him who he though was the cutest guy in the company. When he told them the rest got all upset he didn't pick them.
They do understand the US position on this but it has not been a problem for them.
Hetrosexual behavior is a big morale problem in some of the US units with folks sleeping around. The Navy had a big issue in 5th fleet that wrecked some careers recently.
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Its producing 12-20% of our armed forces FQ13
You had that in the Second World War as well. But you didn't have them integrated all over the service. As a result you had none of the problems you have now. Look at the police. You've had female police officers for decades. Most worked in administrative positions, or else with children or other low risk, non physically demanding roles. Today they want to ride around in squad cars with guns, bringing down 300 pound, crazed crack heads. For what? It's the same but worse with fire departments across the country. They have had to lower the physical standards to near dangerous levels so these women can pass the physical tests and "do what the men do". It's silly, stupid and dangerous. If women want to serve in the military and in the nations various police and fire departments, there is a place for them, and always has been. It isn't side by side with the men everywhere, all the time. The same goes for homosexuals. Bill T.
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Ratcatcher said: "Hetrosexual behavior is a big morale problem in some of the US units with folks sleeping around. The Navy had a big issue in 5th fleet that wrecked some careers recently."
Its that way in every profession though. The basic rule is that you don't sleep with someone in the same chain of command. I dont care if its an insurance office or the Marines. If they take your orders or give them to you, they're off limits. God knows I could have slept with a lot of my students over the years, but you just don't do it. Horizontal (pun intended) relationships only. Anything else will get you fired just as quick as it will get you courtmartialed.
FQ13
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One of the last bastions of all male service in the armed forces is this nations submarine fleet. It is, and always has been all male, because of the extremely tight close working environment. The women are, and have been pushing to get into that as well. They'll do it. It's only a matter of time. When they do there will be a ton of issues and problems that will arise because of it. Most will be sexual in nature. None of it will make the submarine fleet any better when it happens. Only more problematic. Again with no purpose served. Bill T.
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Hi;
This ruling is bad for the Morale and Well being of the US Military of all branches. True in that there have been and are current people like that in the military. They do have to restrain themselves in order to stay a member of the Armed Forces.
After having 4 platoons, I was assigned to Bn Casual/Reassignment ( 1975-76 ). This job consisted of reassigning recruits that had lost more than 3 days within a training cycle. Another part of the job was interviewing recruits from the Battalion that were to be discharged for many reasons - crimminal,drug,character/behavior,underage etc. Homosexual claims were also processed, some were factual and some were claimed just to get out of the Corps. To this day, I believe that homosexuals are not stable people. Their practices are sickening to whatever "normal" people believe in. To hear statements on Incest can make you vomit.
I had more respect for the "kids" that got caught up with "the gang" and were busted for stupid stuff than any Homosexual that came through the office.
Just remember, Your buddy is supposed to watch your back - not your butt!
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Tom I know the history of pouge and the original/correct spelling, I however opted to use the spelling that most of our young Marines are using...guess that's a comment on our education system!
I knew I would end up starting something but... a significant part of humanity is homosexual. Any belief system that preaches love and acceptance without accepting these people does all humanity a disservice and smacks of hypocrisy. No, radical homosexuality is not mainstream but, as with radical anything, most homosexuals are not radical. I'm not so sure I even buy the argument that most people don't want them around, I believe that except for the “in your face idiots” on both sides of the augment most people don't give a shit. To base all ones opinions of homosexuals on the nut jobs, washouts and oh poor me segment of their orientation is about as fair as painting all southerners with the "6 generation inbreeding mountain hillbillies" brush
BillT's arguments against homosexuals in the military have little to distinguish them from the ones used when all "them niggers" were "forced" onto the military. Yet for decades the armed forces were the most integrated, least contentious segment of American culture (at least until the me firsters and PC crowds started to mess with our country and the expectations that people should meet set standards instead of changing the standard to serve an agenda). Were there issues...yes but were they as common as "mainstream culture"...nope. Hundreds of thousands of service people did their stint and learned that blacks are just like the rest of us some outstanding and some major pieces of fecal material, those attitudes carried with them when they returned to "mainstream culture" and help power the original civil rights movement. Radicals push the envelope but nothing changes if there is not an underlying cultural acceptance.
Too often the hater's raise hell about being "forced" to accept something/someone counter to their beliefs, all while firmly sure of their moral imperative to impose their version of reality on others. The Westboro idiots come to mind. Do not take this next statement as an endorsement of Islam, especially the radical version but; sometimes it amazes me when the same people who make fun of the 12th century mindset of Islam and the Quran pound on the bible as the unalterable fount of all wisdom. Conveniently ignoring the fact that the basis for the bible is even older than the belief system they are mocking and has been “altered”, both by intent and piss poor translation, innumerable times.
The arguments that we need the military/police/fire, whatever: to be all male, all strait, all this or that; or we will have problems is pandering to the same mentality as the people who modify performance standards in order to "include" everyone. If you can't interact with other adults of any gender/orientation without "problems" then YOU may the problem not them!
OK flack jacket on, helmet secure...post!
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BillT's arguments against homosexuals in the military have little to distinguish them from the ones used when all "them niggers" were "forced" onto the military.
That is total nonsense. First of all I'm not against Homosexuals in the military, or anywhere else for that matter. I'm just not seeing any advantage to having the right to brag about it. Keep quiet and avoid problems. There is nothing wrong with "don't ask, don't tell". If you're a homosexual just refrain from shouting it from the rooftops, if you happen to be in the military! No good will become of it. Can anyone explain how you can have a problem with a homosexual, if no one knows he is a homosexual? Copping out to some kind of nebulos, politically correct position says nothing, and proves even less. We've had blacks, women, and homosexuals around for a long time, in most all walks of life. Only now it is becoming a problem simply because we are forcing the issue of acceptance through integration. By doing so we are putting a lot of people into positions they don't want to be in, but are being forced into. The outcome when that happens is never good. All of the problems that have been created are proof of this. If it was all so wonderfully accepted, none of this would be happening. You cannot dictate to people what they should or shouldn't accept, and then expect them to be overjoyed about it. Bill T.
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FYI Bill, we've had blacks women and homosexuals around for as long as there have been humans. Is it their job to stay in the closet, or our job to get over ourselves and realize this fact?
FQ13
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FYI Bill, we've had blacks women and homosexuals around for as long as there have been humans. Is it their job to stay in the closet, or our job to get over ourselves and realize this fact?
FQ13
We've "realized it" for as long as they've been around. It is in fact they're behaviour that has changed, not anyone else's. Every time we are pushed to "accept" a race or sexual orientation, problems arise. If you want an example look at our current President. He was elected strictly because it was the politically correct thing for whites to do. So they did it, jumping at the chance, swooning by the millions over their accomplishment at his inauguration. Here we sit less than 2 years later in this total mess. The same thing is happening with muslims, homosexuals, and women most everywhere else. They've been around for quite a while too. Now we're trying to blame ourselves yet again for all of this non acceptance. Where does all of this silliness end? When you push against an immovable object all you get is more resistance. All of this progressive thinking has proven that, if nothing else. Bill T.
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One of the last bastions of all male service in the armed forces is this nations submarine fleet. It is, and always has been all male, because of the extremely tight close working environment. The women are, and have been pushing to get into that as well. They'll do it. It's only a matter of time. When they do there will be a ton of issues and problems that will arise because of it. Most will be sexual in nature. None of it will make the submarine fleet any better when it happens. Only more problematic. Again with no purpose served. Bill T.
I believe they're already approved and going forward with it, I can find a link if you're interested.
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=52954
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Look at women in the workplace. They have been there forever. Yet today with all of this stupid, progressive thinking it has led to tension at work that is off the chart. It is so bad that I have all but given up even speaking to women where I work. One woman there has had 3 men fired complaining about "sexual harassment". There never was any. Only the fear of legal repercussions if the owner didn't take action. That has led to all of this "zero tolerance" bull$h!t. It has never been like this. Ever. When I first got into my trade as an apprentice back in the early 70's, you couldn't work in a shop, any shop, without seeing naked pin up women from men's magazines everywhere. The office women came into the shop and it never bothered them. They would even check them out and joke about them. It was a light, easy going, friendly atmosphere.
Today you would be fired in a heartbeat for any such thing, and the owner would be facing the a$$ end of a 6 digit law suit for "sexual harassment". How is this change for the better? It isn't, plain and simple. When you give people, regardless of whatever race, religion, or gender they happen to be, the ability to cause and manufacture trouble, most will. We are seeing that today most everywhere. It is not becoming a better world because of it. Only more problem plagued. A lot more. I can't wait for the next 4 years to pass so I can exit the workforce once and for all. And I pity the next generation who has to try and earn a living in it. It's not going to be a pleasant venture to say the least. All of this stupid, progressive thinking is 95% of the reason why. Bill T.
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I have to agree with Bill on this. I find nothing wrong with Don't ask Don't tell. Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with how well you perform your job. Be it launching MLRS or pealing potatoes. I don't give one hoot if your gay, but that doesn't mean I want to know about it. A persons sex life if something that I am perfectly happy to be ignorant about. If I'm sharing a foxhole with someone, I don't really want to hear about your conquest with whoever from last weekend. This goes for straight guys too! I don't care, I don't want to know.
Where you choose to stick your thermometer is your business. Don't bring it to the office. That goes for everyone. Gay, straight, male, or female. We are here to do a job. Let's get it done and go home. Yes it's more complicated in the military, but so is everything.
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I believe they're already approved and going forward with it, I can find a link if you're interested.
You mean the giant underwater electrically powered penis shaped things will get girls onboard? Hell, there goes the battery life! ;D (Sorry, I couldn't help it).
FQ13 who will be corner bound.
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I believe they're already approved and going forward with it, I can find a link if you're interested.
I believe you. If there is a way they can cause issues with this kind of thing, they will. Bill T.
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You mean the giant underwater electrically powered penis shaped things will get girls onboard? Hell, there goes the battery life! ;D (Sorry, I couldn't help it).
FQ13 who will be corner bound.
Since Hyman Rickovers day, the Submarine Forces are nuclear FQ. We don't use battery power boats much...
How this got from homosexuals to women I don't know. I started a new job a few months ago and the Plant/General Manager is a very capable, very attractive, very intelligent and knowledgable 39 year old woman. I didn't know this when I took the position but it wouldn't have mattered to me personally. She can hold her own in a crowd of men and in the five months since she's taken the position, she's earned the respect of the folks on the floor. Our Quality Manager is also a woman and though I don't know her background specifically, she seems capable and has been there several years.
I've worked for women before, smart and otherwise. They're not going away so we might as well stop bitching about it and move forward.
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I have to agree with Bill on this. I find nothing wrong with Don't ask Don't tell. Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with how well you perform your job. Be it launching MLRS or pealing potatoes. I don't give one hoot if your gay, but that doesn't mean I want to know about it. A persons sex life if something that I am perfectly happy to be ignorant about. If I'm sharing a foxhole with someone, I don't really want to hear about your conquest with whoever from last weekend. This goes for straight guys too! I don't care, I don't want to know.
Where you choose to stick your thermometer is your business. Don't bring it to the office. That goes for everyone. Gay, straight, male, or female. We are here to do a job. Let's get it done and go home. Yes it's more complicated in the military, but so is everything.
+1. I don't want to hear it, as most of them don't want to hear my religion or politics.
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Is TAB really Red?
Nah,,,if he was, he would've posted the one of her bending over trying to pick up the soap! :P
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Actually you are ignoring the historical record which shows that your attitudes are based entirely on cultural bias.
There is nothing wrong with having active homosexuals serve, even command, in combat.
The Greek's intentionally used homosexual relationships to strengthen unit cohesion.
( f*ck, I'll never get to bed, but this needs saying )
We have all heard the joke that the Greek Army song is "I'll never leave my Buddies behind".
It's a sound theory, would you leave your wife or girlfriend in the middle of an ax fight to save your own hide?
Research "Sacred Bands" They did not originate with the Thieves world novel's.
They were (Spartan IIRC ) military units composed of homosexual couples. Seemed to work OK at Thermopylae.
The Romans didn't seem to be impeded too much by it either and they'd screw anything.
So basically these concerns are based entirely on the prejudice of the community at large and the people who "know what's best for you".
Sounds like congress.
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It's not the "Having them serve" part that I, or most others object to. They've been doing it for eons. It is this constant politically correct bombardment we are faced with every single day, and being told we're nothing more than Archie Bunker bigots if we don't like it, or prefer a more subdued, less "in your face" approach, like Don't ask don't tell.
The fact of the matter is these people are what they are, and always have been. They've been, and currently are, in the service. I just don't want it shoved in my face every 15 minutes, then be told if I don't like it, I'm the bad guy. That's total ignorance on their part, not mine. This is the part of gays in the military, getting "married", walking hand in hand down the street kissing and playing grab ass in public that I and most others object to. They know the feelings of most straight Americans, but they don't care because damn them, they want it their way, and screw what everyone else feels or wants. They'll tread on a straight persons rights by shoving their lifestyle in their face, then cry foul when they, (straight people), object and simply say I don't want to hear about it, or see it.
No one is telling them they can't serve, or do the other things. It's just we don't want to see it all the time every time. In the military you are fed what they prepare. If you don't want to go hungry you'll eat it. You may want something else, but all people are different and there is no pleasing everyone. The military doesn't care because they can't make everything to everyone's liking because it would be all but impossible. The gays need to understand the same thing applies to their "lifestyle". Some people won't like them anymore than they'll ever like Turnips. Life goes on, and so should they, and stop trying to change everyone's mind in the process. I "Know what's best for me". Not the gay's, or Congress for that matter. Bill T.
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If you think about it, this is the exact same thing that applies to the building of this mosque near Ground Zero. No one is saying they don't have the legal right to build it. No one is saying they, (muslims), are not entitled to the same religious freedoms everyone else is. What people are saying is it is disrespectful to others to build it so close to where almost 3,000 Americans were in fact killed by muslims. That's it. But, much like gays in the military, and everywhere else, the muslims don't care about our feelings, only theirs. They want to advance their cause at the expense of what others feel or care about. This is where the friction comes into play, and all of this stupid, politically correct nonsense starts kicking in. It is their belief, much like the gays, they are right, and everyone else is wrong, and need to come around to their way of progressive thinking. The political correctness comes into play by laying the claim you are the religious, or social bigot if you don't.
It is so out of control that Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walked off "The View" when Bill O'Reilly stated the simple fact muslims attacked us on 9/11. Well if not them, who then? It wasn't Southern Baptists. Goldberg and Behar were upset that O'Reilly didn't state they were muslim "Extremists". Their thinking was people would be led to believe by his statement all muslims were bad and lumped into the same category as the extremists. Come on, do they really think Americans can't figure this out by themselves without being told in every sentence spoken about this topic in the last 10 years? It's sheer lunacy the way this kind of politically correct thinking has consumed the American public.
It is the same exact thing with this whole gay lifestyle issue, be it in the military, socially, down the street from your house, or anywhere else. All of it is nothing more than a hooray for me, screw you attitude they are pushing behind a plow powered by nothing more than political correctness. Notice how none of this crap got any traction before all of this politically correct thinking consumed the American public and media? Now these gays, muslims, and liberals are playing off of it hoping to get more mileage out of their cause. I won't buy into any of it. People have certain rights, no one is disputing that. How, when, and where we as groups or individuals choose to exercise those rights requires respect for others. This is what the muslims and the gays, along with the liberals who want to push their agenda on everyone else need to realize. Bill T.
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So we have no problem with them serving as long as they; do nothing to threaten or offend our cultural/religious bias...but don't anyone dare do or say anything that might infringe on our right to tell those different from us how to live their life.
Yes the PC culture is out of control and fueling both sides of this issue but the underpinning of the issue is not PC! It is the ability of these people to exercise the same rights that we enjoy. How they exercise those rights becomes a personal issue and respect should come into play... not all people act with respect for others is that grounds to restrict their rights. I don't find the half naked teens running around the mall, the 300 pound woman forcing her way into the fast food line or a host of other "mainstream" people to be respectful either but no one is calling for their right to live their life as they chose to be infringed.
I'll point back to the young NCO from my son's unit, yes everyone knew she was gay but she didn't flaunt it, she didn't force her views onto anyone else, she was an effective leader of her troops and a highly skilled technician yet she is out of the Marine Corps because her simple existence offended some backwoods "born again" idiot from Arkansas and she refused to lie when she was asked. Seems "don't ask" doesn't apply to investigating complaints and "don't tell" only applies to the homosexual and not the idiot with an agenda. Her commander went to bat for her and tried to keep her in but the higher command said no because no gays in the military is policy. This situation was a loss for the Corps and for America in general. A motivated, talented, trained person went home ending her career and we got to keep a "good christian" who according to my son couldn't do his job without a babysitter even after a year on the job. Yep don't ask, don't tell worked real well! Had the policy been gays are welcome to serve...period this would not have happened. There are ways to deal with the activist type within the command structure. Behavior can affect your Pro/Cons and thus promotions and flagrant issues can be addressed with NJP's or more under the UCMJ. The biggest arguments against them all seem to center around either "my God says they are evil" or "they are treading on my rights by making me see it". I see a whole lot more strait people acting in an inappropriate manner when in public that I do gay people but if the gays do it there is a huge uproar. Funny how the people concerned about "rights" have no problem stepping on someone else’s rights simply so they do not have to feel uncomfortable. They are being told that they cannot live their lives in the same way we do simply so that our delicate sensibilities are not threatened. Are you uncomfortable? Some advice from my Grandpa... "You don't like it? Hey boy that's life and it ain't going to change just for you, either suck it up and deal with it or go sit in the corner and suck your thumb".
The switch to women in the workplace is equally interesting; yep they have been there forever. Sexual abuse, intimidation and inequity has been around forever too. This behavior was long overdue to be addressed, the problems that you are complaining about are not the result of the working woman, her place in the workforce or the fact that she has every right to fair and respectful treatment. They are the result of dumbass politicians who make laws more or less in a vacuum, bureaucrats who administer those laws without any thought to common sense or reality, activist women with an agenda, media that pander to "the men are bad" mindset and lawyers who found a gravy train.
I guess I don't feel threatened by gays and I'm not so delicate that seeing them in public would scar me. For those of you that are, I refer you back to my Grandpa's wise words. For me I'm done with this subject as I don't see it going anywhere. I said my piece and am not likely to change anyone's mind and sure as hell no one here is going to change mine.
We'll have to agree to disagree and now I'm going pretend to go back to work.
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So once again we are going to allow a small group of extremist to change centuries of beliefs all for the sake of being Politically Correct?
I guess we may as well...this country is swinging more towards the European mindset anyway...
Anyone know when the first shuttle to mars is leaving....?
I may want to reserve a seat off this rock.
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So we have no problem with them serving as long as they; do nothing to threaten or offend our cultural/religious bias...but don't anyone dare do or say anything that might infringe on our right to tell those different from us how to live their life.
No one is telling them how to "live their life". You're confusing "bias" with preference. I don't kiss and fondle my wife in public. It's not for lack of want, but rather respect for others. Sure I have the "right" to do it, but I choose not to exercise it. It's no different with gays in the military, or anywhere else. They have the ability to do their jobs well. How is shoving their sexual preference in everyone's face going to make them any better at it? It won't, pure and simple. All it is going to do is cause added tension and issues the military doesn't need. They can be gay, the same as I can be "Straight". They can be in the military, same as anyone else. They can practice whatever sexual "situation" turns them on, just like any other straight couple. They can also keep quiet about it, the same as I do about my marriage and sexual preferences and or actions. I'm not seeing how this is infringing on anyone's "rights". It is simply common sense and respect for others. P.C. is pushing it everywhere else it does not need to go. The comparison you make to the half naked teens at the mall, or the fat woman falls into the same category as the gays. They are being insensitive to others by trying to push their cause, and what they want. Again, nothing more than hooray for me, and screw you. I don't go around bragging I'm married, or what my sexual preferences are with my wife, why do they feel they have to, and then have the audacity to feel threatened if someone doesn't want to hear it? It's almost downright silly.
The switch to women in the workplace is equally interesting; yep they have been there forever. Sexual abuse, intimidation and inequity has been around forever too. This behavior was long overdue to be addressed, the problems that you are complaining about are not the result of the working woman, her place in the workforce or the fact that she has every right to fair and respectful treatment.
Again, no one is saying, or even remotely suggesting women, or anyone else for that matter should have to face abuse or bullying in the workplace. The problem now is the entire concept of preventing this sort of behaviour has gone to the point of the mere accusation of it can destroy a innocent persons ability to earn a living, or ruin a perfectly good career. I've seen it, so please don't tell me it isn't happening. Employers have become so fearful of being sued they'll cut lose anyone who is even remotely charged with any such action. Again, I've seen it, and yes, again it's all of this P.C. nonsense that is the driving force behind it. Political correctness is making people blind and stupid in this country. It allows them to act without any common sense thinking or thought process. I offer up "Zero Tolerance" as the ultimate politically correct cop out they all fall on.
What I find so amazing are all of these companies who are so quick on the trigger to adapt the "Zero Tolerance" cop out to sexual harassment, in no way, shape, or form accurately define it. You tell a woman at work you think she looks really nice in an outfit she's wearing, she takes it the wrong way, marches into the owners office and complains, "Bill T. is making suggestive remarks about my clothing, and I want it STOPPED!" My paycheck just went to zero because this woman got up on the wrong side of bed, or else hated me to begin with for whatever reason. Again, I've seen it happen, and it is out of control. And please don't try and tell me it isn't because of political correctness. The more P.C. this nation becomes, the worse all of this gets. Bill T.
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And now to frost the cake and light the candles, N.P.R. Radio has just fired Juan Williams because he made the statement on Fox News, if he were on a commercial airliner, and a bunch of muslims in full garb were sitting across the isle, it would make him nervous. I guess I should be fired as well because it sure as hell would make me more nervous than if it were a senior group out of Schenectady, New York. Once again political correctness running totally amok, and an innocent man loses his job because of it.
In an even better example of this insanity, I'll offer up a situation that happened at my company. We have several hispanics employed in a multitude of positions. Before the passage of S.B. 1070 they were all complaining about how unfair it was, and how they all hoped it would be defeated. Most others ignored them and all of their bantering. No one engaged them in any debate about it. Then, without warning all non hispanic employees were called into a meeting and told if we are caught even discussing S.B. 1070 among ourselves, we would be fired on the spot! Most of us simply walked out shaking our heads. I have never seen it this bad in over 40 years in the workforce, and as I mentioned before, I can't wait for retirement so I can get the hell out of it for good! Bill T.
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Actually Rat, it is only decades of ignorant bigotry. Prior to the modern era anybody was perfectly welcome to get shot at for the country.
Check your history, Blacks flocked to the English cause during the Revolution, there were even blacks serving in the Confederate Army during the Civil war.
Another thought for all of you, Who the f*$k do you think you are ? You bitch about any infringement of your rights, but some of you are perfectly willing to tell every one else how to live ?
I never in a million years thought I would wind up defending queers, but it sounds like hypocrisy to me.
And now to frost the cake and light the candles, N.P.R. Radio has just fired Juan Williams because he made the statement on Fox News, if he were on a commercial airliner, and a bunch of muslims in full garb were sitting across the isle, it would make him nervous. I guess I should be fired as well because it sure as hell would make me more nervous than if it were a senior group out of Schenectady, New York. Once again political correctness running totally amok, and an innocent man loses his job because of it.
In an even better example of this insanity, I'll offer up a situation that happened at my company. We have several hispanics employed in a multitude of positions. Before the passage of S.B. 1070 they were all complaining about how unfair it was, and how they all hoped it would be defeated. Most others ignored them and all of their bantering. No one engaged them in any debate about it. Then, without warning all non hispanic employees were called into a meeting and told if we are caught even discussing S.B. 1070 among ourselves, we would be fired on the spot! Most of us simply walked out shaking our heads. I have never seen it this bad in over 40 years in the workforce, and as I mentioned before, I can't wait for retirement so I can get the hell out of it for good! Bill T.
They do not have the power to make that stick, since it is not legal. 1st Amendment, and various SCOTUS rulings.
Some even focusing on Gays.
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They do not have the power to make that stick, since it is not legal. 1st Amendment, and various SCOTUS rulings.
It doesn't matter. Who is going to take them to court on it? Law suits cost money, and even in this type of situation if you prevailed the most you'll see is job reinstatement with the possibility of recouping some back pay. Attorneys won't see a big payoff, so they'll balk at taking the case. Either way the white employee loses. These people know where the boundaries lay, and march right up to them. Bill T.
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It doesn't matter. Who is going to take them to court on it? Law suits cost money, and even in this type of situation if you prevailed the most you'll see is job reinstatement with the possibility of recouping some back pay. Attorneys won't see a big payoff, so they'll balk at taking the case. Either way the white employee loses. These people know where the boundaries lay, and march right up to them. Bill T.
So basically you seem to be saying that only the anti white types have the determination to actually back up what they say ?
Seems like it always comes back to the money with you, principle takes 2nd place to profit.
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You bitch about any infringement of your rights, but some of you are perfectly willing to tell every one else how to live ?
I don't care how anyone "lives". I just don't want to hear a "blow by blow" description. Gays don't effect my rights, or I there's. I just don't care about their "choices" in life anymore than they care about mine. I'm for everyone, gay or straight, keeping their mouth shut about their sexuality. In short, I don't want to be exposed to it from either side. Bill T.
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So basically you seem to be saying that only the anti white types have the determination to actually back up what they say ?
Seems like it always comes back to the money with you, principle takes 2nd place to profit.
Please explain how one "profits" from a job loss? Bill T.
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Who I am...?
An American Taxpayer excercising my 1st Amendment rights to Free Speech.
I do not agree with Gays in the Milityary...Abortion...or the continued Erosion of this Country's Constitution....
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So basically you seem to be saying that only the anti white types have the determination to actually back up what they say ?
No, the "anti white types" back up nothing. They are better at bitching and moaning about whatever ails them, and getting away with it simply because employers are scared to death of them, because big name attorneys the likes of Gloria Allred are chomping at the bit to take on a case involving a minority pro bono, because the payoff will come in spades in garnered publicity and catapult their careers into the limelight, much as it did for her in the Niki Diaz fiasco involving Meg Whitman. Who do you think will pay more out of pocket for cleaning up that mess, Whitman or Diaz? Whitman is wealthy, Diaz doesn't have a pot to piss in, or a window to toss it from. She is nothing more than an illegal invader in search of a soap box. Allred gave it to her free of charge, complete with microphone and satellite link.
Fast forward to me for possibly getting fired because I thwarted "company policy" and talked about S.B. 1070. Who is going to come out of the woodwork to defend my poor little white ass? Bottom line, I'm not going to risk it so I can spend $500.00 in attorneys fees for every $50.00 I get in back pay, and a job back that I never should have lost in the first place. Pardon me for being practical and using simple mathematics in place of being a financial and social martyr. Bill T.
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OK I lied...last post I promise!
No one is telling them how to "live their life". You're confusing "bias" with preference. I don't kiss and fondle my wife in public. It's not for lack of want, but rather respect for others. Sure I have the "right" to do it, but I choose not to exercise it. It's no different with gays in the military, or anywhere else. They have the ability to do their jobs well. How is shoving their sexual preference in everyone's face going to make them any better at it? It won't, pure and simple. All it is going to do is cause added tension and issues the military doesn't need. They can be gay, the same as I can be "Straight". They can be in the military, same as anyone else. They can practice whatever sexual "situation" turns them on, just like any other straight couple. They can also keep quiet about it, the same as I do about my marriage and sexual preferences and or actions. I'm not seeing how this is infringing on anyone's "rights". It is simply common sense and respect for others. P.C. is pushing it everywhere else it does not need to go. The comparison you make to the half naked teens at the mall, or the fat woman falls into the same category as the gays. They are being insensitive to others by trying to push their cause, and what they want. Again, nothing more than hooray for me, and screw you. I don't go around bragging I'm married, or what my sexual preferences are with my wife, why do they feel they have to, and then have the audacity to feel threatened if someone doesn't want to hear it? It's almost downright silly
Actually you are telling them how to live their life when you tell them that they cannot do the same things you can do in your life unless they "hide" who they are. And it is different for gays in the military; if you are a 20 something, strait, horndog sleeping with and bragging about all the bar sluts you have done; there is no jepardy to your continued service. If you are gay and express it in any way you risk being tossed out on your ass so; no, they cannot be in the military "same as anyone else". Believe it or not being gay does not by default make them activists or braggarts about who the prefer to sleep with. Some do...most don't same as us straight folk. I think you are confusing "preference" with bias. How did your personal preference come to supersede theirs or anyone else's? How is shoving your moral preference in everyone's face displaying common sense or respect? Why can you have the audacity to object to their preferences while berating them for objecting to yours?
The switch to women in the workplace is equally interesting; yep they have been there forever. Sexual abuse, intimidation and inequity has been around forever too. This behavior was long overdue to be addressed, the problems that you are complaining about are not the result of the working woman, her place in the workforce or the fact that she has every right to fair and respectful treatment. They are the result of dumbass politicians who make laws more or less in a vacuum, bureaucrats who administer those laws without any thought to common sense or reality, activist women with an agenda, media that pander to "the men are bad" mindset and lawyers who found a gravy train.
Dude...did you even read the last half of that paragraph? In all of my posts I referrence that the biggest problems are PC and/or extremism. The part you are not accepting is there are extremists on both sides of the issue. Their side pushing for equal treatment and your side pushing back basically because "it just ain't right and I don't like it". The folks in the middle, both strait and gay mostly spend our time shaking our heads in amazement at the stupidity of both sides. The simple core of the issue is make policy; "Sexual orientation shall have no bearing on the ability of a person to serve in the US Armed Forces" simple straight forward and no need of, or leverage for, any liberal PC crap or fundamentalist's input.
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OK I lied...last post I promise!
Actually you are telling them how to live their life when you tell them that they cannot do the same things you can do in your life unless they "hide" who they are.
I can see you are having great difficulty with this, and I am running out of patience. My mother always told me when in doubt apply common sense. Let's do that. I didn't want to go here, but you are forcing the position. In throwing a hypothetical blanket over the entire military in this country, what would you think the average, red blooded American soldier would rather hear when hip to hip in a foxhole with his comrade in arms, or 6 inches away from his face in tight quarters.................. A story about some red hot 44" blond he banged 11 ways to Sunday over a railing in a strip club in a skin tight leather mini and 6" spikes while she was screaming "More More More!!!".................. Or rather one about about how he long dicked his buddy up his dirt chute in the back of the local mini mart?
Think carefully and tell me which one the military is going to have more trouble with. ::) Bill T.
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Actually you are ignoring the historical record which shows that your attitudes are based entirely on cultural bias.
There is nothing wrong with having active homosexuals serve, even command, in combat.
The Greek's intentionally used homosexual relationships to strengthen unit cohesion.
( f*ck, I'll never get to bed, but this needs saying )
We have all heard the joke that the Greek Army song is "I'll never leave my Buddies behind".
It's a sound theory, would you leave your wife or girlfriend in the middle of an ax fight to save your own hide?
Research "Sacred Bands" They did not originate with the Thieves world novel's.
They were (Spartan IIRC ) military units composed of homosexual couples. Seemed to work OK at Thermopylae.
The Romans didn't seem to be impeded too much by it either and they'd screw anything.
So basically these concerns are based entirely on the prejudice of the community at large and the people who "know what's best for you".
Sounds like congress.
Technically, the Spartans were bi-sexual like the Romans. The Thebans were the ones with the homo couples formed into fighting forces.
And the Athenians and the rest of the Greeks made raucous fun of both of them for their overt and rampant homosexuality.
Even the gays say that only 10% of the population is homosexual. Hardly mainstream, and hardly normal by anyone's definition.
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Even the gays say that only 10% of the population is homosexual. Hardly mainstream, and hardly normal by anyone's definition.
Bingo, we have a winner. Thank you Don Pardo and tell us what this contestant has won today! Bill T.
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I wonder about you two, you worry about other peoples sex lives so much.
What business is it of yours beyond your inflated "I have all the only right answers" bigotry.
Last Child molester they arrested up this way was a local Pastor, and councilor at a "Christian" youth camp
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In just the Marine Corp alone you've got 95% of these guys saying they don't want them around.
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2010/10/openly-homosexual-troops-in-military.html
When you read articles like the one linked below, a person can't help but wonder how any good at all can come from something like this happening within our military.
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2010/02/frr-feb-2010-%E2%80%94-gays-in-military-sex-in-barracks/
It all makes you wonder if all of this nonsense is worth it just to appease an estimated 2.2% of the total military that is alleged to be gay?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/01/military_gays_inservice_012710w/
Sure, people can fall back on how their rights are being infringed upon, etc. But the fact is we are talking about 2.2%, or around 66,000 people. That's it. If they feel that badly about it, stay out of the military. I sure would if I was gay. Why force yourself to be somewhere you are not wanted? It just makes no sense. Yes, you can come back with the whole argument about how they, "have as much right to be there as you do". But in reality it isn't going to change anything. I don't put myself into situations where I feel uncomfortable. It just isn't worth it. Regardless of "what my rights are".
Everything in life boils down to risk vs. reward. As I mentioned, I don't openly converse with women where I work. I don't like doing that, and quite honestly I shouldn't have to deal with that kind of crap. But because of the problems I've seen with all of this sexual harassment nonsense, it is simply not worth the risk. So that is the standard I have set forth for myself. I'm sure a lot of the women where I work think I'm a big prick for it. I really don't like it, or much care because conditions at work have led me to believe that is the safest policy to follow, even though it is wrong, and I shouldn't have to do it. It is the way things are, or rather the way things have become. With only 2.2% of the people in the military today classified as "gay", this is taking the long way around the barn.
This country is good at making mountains out of molehills. Look at the black population. It is somewhere around 11%, and because of it we pushed this country to put a black into the Presidency. At what benefit? Now we are faced with a huge political mess to clean up as a result of our politically correct actions to do "what is right". If it was so damn "right", why is everything so f#*ked up because of it? I'm putting this whole gays in the military thing into the same smelly pile of dung. The more you stir it, the more it will stink. Bill T.
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oy - try to start a light heated thread to mock the USMC and look what happens
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I wonder about you two, you worry about other peoples sex lives so much.
What business is it of yours beyond your inflated "I have all the only right answers" bigotry.
Last Child molester they arrested up this way was a local Pastor, and councilor at a "Christian" youth camp
Not at all. The gays are so in your face about their sexuality that you cannot avoid it.
The bit about the Thebans and Spartans and Athenians (oh, my!) i learned through my studies in history.
The acknowledged percentage of gays has been thrown around quite a bit by the gays themselves, hard to miss it if you're paying any attention at all.
As for the pastor, the pedophiles are everywhere, and they move into jobs/avocations/locations where they can be close to their pool of victims, ala priests. That's one of the reasons the Boy Scouts screen the hell out of their applicants for leaders, and some pedophiles still make it through.
Tom, you've been wrong about a lot of things lately, I'm beginning to rethink my vote in 2012 . . . ::) :-\
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Not at all. The gays are so in your face about their sexuality that you cannot avoid it.
The bit about the Thebans and Spartans and Athenians (oh, my!) i learned through my studies in history.
The acknowledged percentage of gays has been thrown around quite a bit by the gays themselves, hard to miss it if you're paying any attention at all.
As for the pastor, the pedophiles are everywhere, and they move into jobs/avocations/locations where they can be close to their pool of victims, ala priests. That's one of the reasons the Boy Scouts screen the hell out of their applicants for leaders, and some pedophiles still make it through.
Tom, you've been wrong about a lot of things lately, I'm beginning to rethink my vote in 2012 . . . ::) :-\
your signature seems to imply Live and Let Live, Path.
If you've been Wronged, Insulted or Laid Hands on by a gay, deal with that individual and let the rest Live as they please.
Denying them the Rights enjoyed by your approved classes of folks is not the way to do that.
Tom, if you lose Path's vote, I'll vote for ya twice. Most of my ancestors are buried in Chicago. I'll see what I can get them to do for ya too.
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The gays are so in your face about their sexuality that you cannot avoid it.
Here I agree completely. So much so I could frankly care less about the whopping 2.2% of them that have their panties in a twist over the whole "Gays in the military" issue. In reality it is even less than that because not every single gay in the military is unhappy with don't ask, don't tell. This in reality is only an issue because we're trying to once again allow political correctness to overtake what the majority, (97.8%), wants in this country. To me it's not a substantial enough of a number to even be concerned about, or listen to. Bill T.
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Here I agree completely. So much so I could frankly care less about the whopping 2.2% of them that have their panties in a twist over the whole "Gays in the military" issue. In reality it is even less than that because not every single gay in the military is unhappy with don't ask, don't tell. This in reality is only an issue because we're trying to once again allow political correctness to overtake what the majority, (97.8%), wants in this country. To me it's not a substantial enough of a number to even be concerned about, or listen to. Bill T.
97.8%...pretty close to the percentage of German voters who voted in favor of giving Hitler dictator like control of Germany.
Being a majority doesn't make them right.
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97.8%...pretty close to the percentage of German voters who voted in favor of giving Hitler dictator like control of Germany. Being a majority doesn't make them right.
Hardly a good comparison. Not wanting to cave to what the gays want hardly makes you a Hitler supporter, anymore than being anti Hussein makes you a racist. We're simply listening to too much noise to pacify too few. If you are gay, and want to be in the military, you can be. Just shut up about it. Millions of people keep quiet about their sexuality to avoid embarrassment. And I don't just mean gays. Melanie and I have been approached by couples in bars over the years who were into "swinging". We politely said we weren't interested. These people come from all walks of life, some quite wealthy, professional people. If it "got out" they could see a great deal of embarrassment and lost income. They weren't violating any law by what they were doing, it just wouldn't sit well within the professional environment they worked in. You don't hear them jumping up and down demanding their "rights". These gays need to live with the hand they've been dealt. It isn't as incapacitating as they make it out to be. They want to make noise and be heard, If we stop listening, much like a child who is demanding attention, they'll go away. In my opinion it will be good riddance. I'm tired of hearing their constant bantering. Bill T.
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Some of you people disgust me, You are so concerned about how some one else warms their sheets.
I didn't come right out and ask this before but, are some sort of perverts ?
Got telescopes pointed at your neighbors bedrooms to make sure they adhere to your standards ?
As long as there are groups like Pink Pistols you got no legitimate gripe.
If you truly value the Constitution, instead of just saying you do you would realize that it isn't there to protect what you approve of, but instead, the things you don't like.
But there is no point in arguing with a genuine bigot.
Some of you make Archie Bunker look open minded.
I'm done with this thread.
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Some of you people disgust me, You are so concerned about how some one else warms their sheets.
Not concerned about it, just am tired of hearing about it. Bill T.