Stupid people can get hurt easily!

[garand4life]

I went into our local convenience store to pick up a much needed bottle of Dr. Pepper. Yes, it's my version of alcohol. Any way, as I'm standing in line to check out this idiot who was probably in his late 40's to early 50's comes up to within 3 or 4 feet and is looking at me in a really odd way. Just to note I carry everywhere and today I had my MP9c in a fobus paddle strongside under a t-shirt and a fleece vest. Well concealed never had any trouble with this setup. He stands there for about 20 seconds or so just looking at me so I preempt him by just saying, "how's it going". And he just says the strangest thing to me. "You think you're gonna need a gun!?". I had know idea what he was talking about. "Sorry?", I answered. And he continues to yell at me about the fact if I don't get away from him I'm gonna need a gun. At this point he takes his left hand and reaches to where my holster was. At this point I was scared to death of what the hell is this guy doing?
I make it a habit to keep my right hand empty in case I need to access the weapon. When he reached for my holster I took one step back moving my gun side away from him. As soon as I realized what he was apparently trying to do I verbally told him to step back and then when he attempted to reach for my again I stepped into him with as much of my weight as I could, without presenting my holster side to him, and tried to push him back. He continued to reach for me and thank God the guy in front of me, who dwarfed me by at least 8 inches in height stepped into and grabbed the guy. They exchanged words, and fortunately the gal behind the counter who I work with at our church called police. She knows I choose to carry legally and supports the idea that I do since her store gets held up on more than a few occasions.
As soon as she called this wacko left the store in a hurry. I know I didn't expose my sidearm. I am very conscious of the fact I have it and take extra effort to insure I don't print. I still don't know how this guy knew I was armed. I explained that to police and fortunately the responding officer knows me and that I would not be careless about carrying. The only way that the responding officer and I could think of is if the guy saw me getting out of my car and the shirt and west got pushed up by the seat belt. I know that I checked to make sure it was down after I got out, but if he saw it in the few seconds it took between me getting out of the car and the point when I gave the shirt a tug to ensure it was concealing.
I wouldn't mind some thoughts on what I could have done since obviously I would not have been justified, i think, in drawing on him.
I'm still a little rattled by the incident. The officer agreed that I didn't do anything wrong and that I did as far as what he heard from witnesses everything I could do in this situation.

[Texas_Bryan]

What a nut case, good job on keeping your wits about you.  He's threatened by you gun but physically approaches you and confronts you about it?  He must be a real crazy fellow.  If someone tries to disarm you of your lawfully carried weapon, I imagine you would be justified if you drew it.  But that could escalate real quick.  Good luck.

[PegLeg45]

I don't know, every situation is uniquely different.......Sounds like you handled it as best as you could.

The one area I might have reacted differently was the pushing part (and this is just my opinion). I might not have pushed into or advanced at him. I might have continued to try to move away..... while loudly asking for the police to be called...... As long as you are trying to avoid him and he is advancing, if it turns 'ugly' you are not seen as an aggressor in the incident.

The 'flip-side' argument to this is, in many places, once he put his hands on your person to start with, all bets are off. If he was not armed, and you are trained to do so, use whatever non-lethal means you have to stop his aggression.

50/50 coin toss.

Glad it didn't escalate into something bad.

[garand4life]

I wish I had a picture of where I was so it would be easier to understand. This store has a single check out in the corner of the front of the store angled toward the middle of the store. Where I was standing did not offer much room to move away, especially with people behind me. I guess my hope was to force him back enough to give myself more standoff distance in the case where I actually had to escalate the response. All in all I wish I had training in more empty hand methods. Michael J. come to OHIO I need your course!!!!

[PegLeg45]

I wish I had a picture of where I was so it would be easier to understand. This store has a single check out in the corner of the front of the store angled toward the middle of the store. Where I was standing did not offer much room to move away, especially with people behind me. I guess my hope was to force him back enough to give myself more standoff distance in the case where I actually had to escalate the response. All in all I wish I had training in more empty hand methods. Michael J. come to OHIO I need your course!!!!

Well, in my un-professional mind, that clarifies it enough to say you probably did what you could as well as the situation allowed.

This is another incident that further proves the need for tactics and training outside the realm of firearms only.

It'll be good to hear what MJ & RP might have to offer on this.

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

Was he "hanging out" in front of the store when you pulled up? He must have caught a glimpse of something. Glad it was handled without having to draw on an unarmed wierdo. Also glad he didn't have a knife, and you kept your cool.

Maybe just an angry, bitter, guy with nothing better to do but try to bully an armed person......That is one day going to get him a Darwin Award.

Amazing how fast a "normal" situation can just change in an instant; your sixth sense worked with this dude, and your whole situational awareness state of mind, really is a good thing to have, that goes for anyone who carries also.

I carry left side IWB, which is my strong side, or back pocket with my P3AT in a Nemesis "wallet" holster, but before opening the car door, I make any adjustments to shirt, and holster, as this side will be the first side facing outward, just a habit similar to when I return to my car.

Glad it turned out the way it did.
Stay Safe.

[garand4life]

The only vantage point I can think of that he may had would be if he was in the car parked to my right. He could have seen me adjust it through my passenger window. Cause usually when I check it's while the majority of my strong side is still angled at the car so I have my door and the body of the car to obscure prying eyes. I think this guy was up to something the way he acted or he was drugged up cause I made no contact with him in the store till he walked up to me.

[Jackel]

sometimes you just get made.

 i remember standing behind a guy at a sporting goods store and i just knew that he was carrying, you couldnt see the gun physically but it was the way he carried himself.

as long as you were doing all you can to conceal it then dont sweat it.

good job keeping your cool, i would have probably ended up punching the guy for grabbing my gun but im way too jumpy when im just standing around like a lemon.

[BigJorgCW9]

Wow! I can't believe more people don't carry in a world full of psychos like that. Good job keeping the situation from getting out of hand. I've been tossing around the idea of carrying a tazer just for events like that. Something like that is just a lose/lose situation. If he were to wrestle your sidearm from you he could kill you. In my eyes you would be justified in fearing for you life. But if you took that course you would probably lose in court. Because the lawyers would portray it as you slaughtering an unarmed man in cold blood, and they would say that it wouldn't even have happened if you didn't have the gun to begin with. Just a bad deal all around. I'm glad you came though alright in the end.

[scott.ballard]

You did a great job in keeping your cool and continuing to think your way through the situation.  I agree that sometimes you just get made.

Did you have to bend over or reach up high to get the drink? Perhaps he saw it then?  Did you reach into your strong side pockets?

I have not had good luck with the hard plastic holsters because they tend to set the weapon off of your body further than I care to have it.  Perhaps this guy could see more than you think he could.  On this note I would recommend that you set up the concealing garments as you had them and then have a few friends look for your gun.  Yes, they have an advantage since they are looking for it and that is the point.  If they honestly can't see it then you are GTG.  You can also try asking one or two of the local gang unit officers to look for it since they are usually trained to a higher degree in spotting concealed weapons.  Just be careful with that route if you don't know any of them.  The best people I know for spotting concealed weapons are protective service types. You may want to consider switching to an IWB to avoid possibly flashing people.

When you carry, do you carry a knife?  If not, you take the force escalation from 0 to 60 almost immediately.  I would recommend that you add a folding knife on your centerline inside your pants.  This will permit drawing with either hand and conceal the clip under your belt.  Having an edged weapon allows you to escalate within reason and is very helpful when it comes to cutting some parasite's hand off of your gun while you hold it in place with your strong hand.

It is probably not feasible for you to carry an impact weapon, but I know of no law prohibiting the carrying of a flashlight.  It would have served you in this case as an impact weapon or potentially as a dis-orientating force if used on strobe.  There are many small flashlights available with crenelated bezels which will help you get those leeches to comply with your desire to be left alone.

If nothing else, pick up one of those keychains with a small kubotan attached and keep that in your left hand.  A sharp blow to the sternum from a kubotan, a flashlight, a spare magazine or a knife handle may have forced this person to re-think his path.  It would have also kept you from having to make body to body contact with him.

Are chemical deterrents or EDWs legal for use in your area?  If so you may want to consider either a taser or some pepper spray.

Look for other ways to to defend yourself besides your firearm and you will have more options next time.  It will allow you to escalate in an appropriate manner.  

Keep in mind that if the situation warrants it, running whenever possible is always your best bet.

You did really well and I admire you for wanting to learn more from the encounter!  Experience is the greatest teacher.

Stay Safe,