A question for all here

[Hazcat]

Never been in one, wouldn't join one.  My Dad was a teamster (local 249) and ened ed having to sue the union to get his retirement. 

Again and again I have watched unions drive companies out of business (and of course the members lose their jobs) but those union bosses keep raking in the money and screwing the worker and the dumbass workers keep thinking it is the companies fault!

[LittleRed]

This topic makes for really fun large family gatherings as my wife's family is union, and I—well—let's just say I have learned how to employ "tactical" communication skills.

My thoughts boil down to:

For public employees: no unions. Every perk and guarantee is at the expense of the taxpayer.

For private sector: let capitalism run its course.

I am not really sure how this works in other states, so I may be ignorant and have a differing opinion in other states, but I live in a right to work state. If unions prove to provide better quality labor (and in some cases they clearly do) then they get the work. (I realize this is an idealistic thought, but this is the theory anyway).

[ratcatcher55]

I was member of two unions during college summer jobs, United Steel Workers and Operating Engineers. I was raised in a strongly pro- management home. I remember my dad locked in during steel strikes.
I had no choice in the matter but such was life. The jobs paid well so losing the dues did not hurt my savings.
Strangely my dealings with corporations recently make me think unions will start growing again. Corporations only care about share prices; management objectives are all short term and are driven by their bonuses. They would lay off their mothers and move the jobs to Cuba if it would get them a bigger bonus check.
Unions were formed because of these same market forces. Workers were pitted against each other so the bare minimum wages would be made. Public service employees could be dismissed at the whim of the new elect official, if you didn’t kick back some cash you were out on the street.
Yes I know big unions are just as corrupt as big business.  It would be nice if the public sector unions were worried about productivity as they were about COLAs.
But trust me, this kind of screw the employees attitude is just what got unions started in the first place.

[alfsauve]

Let's step back a minute.

First Amendment covers the right to associate (meet)

.... the right of the people peaceably to assemble....

So if workers, gun owners, hobbist, skill professionals, want to band together, for a common cause,  (think, AFL/CIO, AARP, NRA, ARRL, AMA) that's protected.

WHAT's shouldn't happen is two things that have.

No group should be given exclusive control.   Call it right to work, but only in the union area has this been granted.  There are choices, both in social, hobby, and other skilled areas.  But labor unions in some states and industries have been allowed to become the soul source of labor.  That should not be.   It is called in all other cases anti-trust. 

The other thing is that while government employees can organize, BUT THEY should not allowed negotiate compensation and benefits, because there is no profit motive to keep things in check.


And the founders of AFL and CIO were very much anti-socialism.  Gompers and Meany were definitely in favor of capitalism and very much against government employee unions.


 

[tombogan03884]

Alf, there are only 3 factions in the history of Labor Unions.
Socialists, Who introduced the concept in the first place.
Organized crime, who supply the "muscle" to enforce Union discipline, and skim the dues and pension funds.
Democrats, who have long benefited from large Union donations, and support from corrupt union management.
KMitch mentioned that Unions helped Fire Fighters. Thats BS, It is Union money that keeps those very azzhats in office.
Without Union campaign contributions they would be defeated by candidates who can actually manage a city efficiently with out taxing the residents out of their homes.

[Sponsor]

[ratcatcher55]

Alf, there are only 3 factions in the history of Labor Unions.
Socialists, Who introduced the concept in the first place.
Organized crime, who supply the "muscle" to enforce Union discipline, and skim the dues and pension funds.
Democrats, who have long benefited from large Union donations, and support from corrupt union management.
KMitch mentioned that Unions helped Fire Fighters. Thats BS, It is Union money that keeps those very azzhats in office.
Without Union campaign contributions they would be defeated by candidates who can actually manage a city efficiently with out taxing the residents out of their homes.

Sorry Tom but your wrong.

Steelworkers and Mineworkers predate Marxs, the mob and the New Deal Democrats

[Pecos Bill]

I hadn't intended to post on this thread this soon but hoo boy did I stir up a hornets nest! I can't and won't say that the unions are socialist but some of what I read sounded socialist to me, JMHO. I read a lot of statements about unions being corrupt, money grabbing grubbing and a general pain in the butt but no one answered my question. I SAY WE SHOULD ABOLISH ALL UNIONS. DO YOU, OUT THERE AGREE OR DISAGREE?

Since unions are considered the root of all that is evil in the business of our society SHOULD WE ABOLISH ALL UNIONS?

Come on guys and gals time to buck up and make a statement yes or no. I don't care if you give a reason or not and I don't want this to be poll put your forum name where your moth is, I have.

Pecos

[kmitch200]

KMitch mentioned that Unions helped Fire Fighters. Thats BS, It is Union money that keeps those very azzhats in office.
Without Union campaign contributions they would be defeated by candidates who can actually manage a city efficiently with out taxing the residents out of their homes.

In a word - no.

Minimum manning on first responding trucks is a safety issue. Period. One that bean counters would like to ignore.
The a/c unit isn't going to crush them after all, and it costs money to properly man trucks. My department follows regs that require 4 guys on the truck. 2 go in and 2 are in place for immediate rescue of the first 2 if needed. That would not be in place if it weren't for the union demanding it.

Rural Metro used to show up at fires with 2 guys on the truck who worked the fire as best they could until someone else showed up. By then, there was no safe way to do an interior attack because it was too far gone. Your house or business in now a parking lot.
Rural Metro was dragged kicking and screaming into compliance to NFPA 1710, 1720 by them going union.

Let me state I am NOT a union flag waver. I saw up close and personal how the union pets were treated, many should have been fired.
I was never one of the 'pets', I was one of the thorns in their side.
They waste a shitload of money, be it fed $ or local $. That has to stop.   
I despise the fat cats that currently lead the IAFF. Their leftwing agenda is sickening. That was the reason I stopped my PAC contributions years ago. I wasn't going to pay extra for the IAFF to support a tax & spend DemoRat. They used part of my dues to support dems and I think it sucks.

The only thing I can and do support is safety issues for first responders.
Who is going to negotiate that? The City Council? The Finance dept bean counters?

Baby - Bathwater.  Know the difference.

[bodean87]

In a word - no.

Minimum manning on first responding trucks is a safety issue. Period. One that bean counters would like to ignore.
The a/c unit isn't going to crush them after all, and it costs money to properly man trucks. My department follows regs that require 4 guys on the truck. 2 go in and 2 are in place for immediate rescue of the first 2 if needed. That would not be in place if it weren't for the union demanding it.

Rural Metro used to show up at fires with 2 guys on the truck who worked the fire as best they could until someone else showed up. By then, there was no safe way to do an interior attack because it was too far gone. Your house or business in now a parking lot.
Rural Metro was dragged kicking and screaming into compliance to NFPA 1710, 1720 by them going union.

Let me state I am NOT a union flag waver. I saw up close and personal how the union pets were treated, many should have been fired.
I was never one of the 'pets', I was one of the thorns in their side.
They waste a shitload of money, be it fed $ or local $. That has to stop.   
I despise the fat cats that currently lead the IAFF. Their leftwing agenda is sickening. That was the reason I stopped my PAC contributions years ago. I wasn't going to pay extra for the IAFF to support a tax & spend DemoRat. They used part of my dues to support dems and I think it sucks.

The only thing I can and do support is safety issues for first responders.
Who is going to negotiate that? The City Council? The Finance dept bean counters?

Baby - Bathwater.  Know the difference.

Your lucky then I have never seen or heard from anyone in the union. I'm thinking about not paying the dues and telling  them to go to hell. Texas is an at will state and the unions dont have any power here, as far as I can tell. If they did do something they would only cause more problems. jmho.

[tombogan03884]

Sorry Tom but your wrong.

Steelworkers and Mineworkers predate Marxs, the mob and the New Deal Democrats

Wrong,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818 – March 14, 1883)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Federation_of_Labor
The American Federation of Labor (AFL) was one of the first federations of labor unions in the United States. It was founded in 1886 by an alliance of craft unions disaffected from the Knights of Labor, a national labor association. Samuel Gompers (1850–1924) was elected president of the Federation at its founding convention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Gompers#Philosophy
Samuel Gompers began his labor career familiar with, and sympathetic to the precepts of socialism,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Mine_Workers

The UMW was founded in Columbus, Ohio, on January 22, 1890, with the merger of two old labor groups, the Knights of Labor Trade Assembly No. 135 and the National Progressive Miners Union [3]. Adopting the model of the American Federation of Labor (AFL), the union was initially established as a three-pronged labor tool: to develop mine safety; to improve mine workers' independence from the mine owners and the company store; and to provide miners with collective bargaining power. After passage of the National Recovery Act in 1933, organizers spread out throughout the United States to organize all coal miners into labor unions.


In other words they were a regional organization until given a boost by "New Deal " democrats Socialists