'he's wearing body armor even if you had a gun you can't hurt him'

[wtr100]

We can argue all day about the psychological versus the physiological effects of bullets, but my thinking is that this guy was NOT a soldier or a cop or a guy who trained and gave any thought to being hit himself. Also, nobody has said conclusively whether this was honest-to-goodness body armor or wannabe tac stuff. In any case, one strategy to think about — if, and only if, you are quick enough to react (e.g., guy comes on stage fires round into ceiling...there is a VERY short window there!) — POUR rounds into him! Even if he's armored, he's not going to be shooting while rounds are hitting his vest. Depending on the distance and your skill level, see if you can cut his legs out from under him. If he goes down, continue to POUR rounds into whatever's visible...head and groin for the stop, but if shoulders and arms or legs and hips are all you have, go for that. If you distance and skill levels give you a headshot, take that multiple times.

Will this work? I have no idea, but I think it may be better than waiting around for a bullet in the head.

Secondly, lights and lasers!

Michael B

PS: We will be modeling this for THE BEST DEFENSE, and we'll be doing a lot of thinking and planning beforehand.

and woo hoo MB replied to one of my threads!.

I don't care what the rest of ya'll say he's alright ...

[Michael Bane]

It now appears the "body armor" was a wannabe tactical vest...last I checked, bullets go through that fabric just fine. In a case like that, I would rather learn the aggressor had on body armor by me hitting him repeatedly in the center of mass than by trying for a head shot, missing, and later learn he was wearing paintball stuff. Occam's Razor in force here!

Second, I've said for ages (and will no doubt say again) that the greatest benefit of practical shooting is learning how to "game" a stange in a matter of seconds. THAT is a stone cold survival skill! Matches also teach you to roll on to Plan "B" when "A" goes all soft and gooey, then onto "C" when "B" goes south. Any plan is better than standing there waiting for the two headlights to impact.

Suggest you all read Gabe Suarez' blogpost today on The Fog of War — A Lack of Certainty:

http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/07/the-fog-of-war-.html

Certainty is not a luxury we're likely to get in this kind of chaotic hell.

Am also a huge proponent of mastering the basics! Over and over again. Kata is a perfect example. I spent about a decade studying kata, even though I'd read Bruce Lee's classic observation that kata is indeed worthless, but that lesson is available only after you'd learned kata. The universe can ALWAYS throw more at you than you've specifically prepared for. But if you've got a lot of tools to draw from, and you've trained yourself to plan/replan quickly (and I strongly suggest Malcolm Gladwell's BLINK as standard reading matter), you have a chance of getting home.

Not a certainty, but at least a chance!

Michael B

PS: I answer everybody, eventually...

[Timothy]

Yes, the company that sold him the vest verified it was just a tacti-billy vest with no armor.

Sadly, it's a bit too late to help those folks but maybe next time!  Sitting here watching the local news and all the rhetoric about assault weapons, huge supplies of ammunition, yada, yada, yada!  Will it never end?

[tombogan03884]

how much Dr Pepper and popcorn do I have to throw to get a mobility kill? 

stupid state of IL

Only 10 ounces if you get cans.

Yes, the company that sold him the vest verified it was just a tacti-billy vest with no armor.

Sadly, it's a bit too late to help those folks but maybe next time!  Sitting here watching the local news and all the rhetoric about assault weapons, huge supplies of ammunition, yada, yada, yada!  Will it never end?

4 guns, and 6,000 rounds.
There's some on here that would be worrying about  next month if they only had 6 K rounds on hand.
And NO Tim, it will never stop until we drive the Marxist Quislings out of education, politics, and the media.

[Timothy]

Only 10 ounces if you get cans.

4 guns, and 6,000 rounds.
There's some on here that would be worrying about  next month if they only had 6 K rounds on hand.
And NO Tim, it will never stop until we drive the Marxist Quislings out of education, politics, and the media.

They stopped a guy in Maine today that had several AR rifles, several handguns, an AK, a moderate amount of ammo driving 120 down the turnpike.

My first thought was he was late for a match at his local club.......again, the rhetoric on how he was able to amass such an "arsenal" of dangerous firearms?

He was arrested, haven't heard any more details.

[Sponsor]

[jnevis]

Only 10 ounces if you get cans.

4 guns, and 6,000 rounds.
There's some on here that would be worrying about  next month if they only had 6 K rounds on hand.
And NO Tim, it will never stop until we drive the Marxist Quislings out of education, politics, and the media.

Had that conversation with someone this morning. 
Co worker said that anybody buying a lot of ammo should be questioned.  I informed him that it wouldn't matter since if any state required a form for anybody buying over say 1K ammo, the guys that do crap like this will buy it 1 box at a time from multiple locations instead of all at once at that point.  The responsible citizen that might have been able to STOP said whack-job would be less prepared to do so because they might have less ammo available to practice.  He understood and agreed, then again I work with a fair number of independant thinkers that don't mind shooting.

[tombogan03884]

They stopped a guy in Maine today that had several AR rifles, several handguns, an AK, a moderate amount of ammo driving 120 down the turnpike.

My first thought was he was late for a match at his local club.......again, the rhetoric on how he was able to amass such an "arsenal" of dangerous firearms?

He was arrested, haven't heard any more details.

\

They CLAIM he admitted to being on his way to kill a former boss in Derry NH. They also make big deal about him admitting he went to a movie the other night with a loaded pistol. Only thing they can actually charge him with is speeding if he has a CCW and none of the rifles were loaded.
They also CLAIMED, he had "an automatic machine gun" which I doubt like hell.

[Pathfinder]

Only 10 ounces if you get cans.

4 guns, and 6,000 rounds.
There's some on here that would be worrying about  next month if they only had 6 K rounds on hand.
And NO Tim, it will never stop until we drive the Marxist Quislings out of education, politics, the media and THIS COUNTRY!!!.

FIFY

[wtr100]

Only 10 ounces if you get cans.

4 guns, and 6,000 rounds.
There's some on here that would be worrying about  next month if they only had 6 K rounds on hand.
And NO Tim, it will never stop until we drive the Marxist Quislings out of education, politics, and the media.

maybe we need to do a Downrange Busters (knock off of mythbusters)- testing what kind of cans work best for a mobility kill

Dr Pepper
Coke
Pepsi
Rootbeer
those football size ice tea cans - mass - think .45 ACP
maybe those little energy drink cans - high capacity - think 9mm
frozen cans

who are we throwing cans at anyways ...   

[tombogan03884]

maybe we need to do a Downrange Busters (knock off of mythbusters)- testing what kind of cans work best for a mobility kill

Dr Pepper
Coke
Pepsi
Rootbeer
those football size ice tea cans - mass - think .45 ACP
maybe those little energy drink cans - high capacity - think 9mm
frozen cans

who are we throwing cans at anyways ...   

Once we start off on the idea, does it really matter any more ?