Dorner: What Lessons are there?

[Tyler Durden]

Don't get me wrong, I am not pro-Dorner.

I am pro-Constitution and pro-due process. Pro-pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.  

In my ideal world, once Dorner had secured himself inside that cabin, and things quieted down to a point, I hope the cops gave him an ultimatum broadcasted over a megaphone or a cruiser's PA system:  "COME OUT IN TEN MINUTES PEACEFULLY, OR WE ARE GOING TO KNOCK IN THE WALLS AND FIRE UP THE TEAR GAS!"

what this incident basically did was turn the police into judge, jury, and executioner.

if there was cahoot-ness between San Bernadino PD and LAPD that shows they knew those CS canisters cause fires, then I hope somebody like the NAACP or the ACLU gets those documents and files suit.

somebody on another forum said there is a training and then a certification process for administering CS grenades.

if some cop was there who was certified and totally ignored what the training or building volume to gas grenade calculators dictate, I hope he gets charged with arson.

[tombogan03884]

For information on the "incendiary CS" I refer you to Waco.

[Timothy]

Reports this am said he killed himself prior to the fire or while he was on fire...bullet through the brain bucket!

Convenience? 

[jnevis]

Like I said earlier Dorner wasn't going to jail, with or without the cs or "get the cop killer" attitude. 
Look at most of these "rampage" shooters, once they get cornered or meet significant resistance they off themselves.  Same thing here.  I believe, in the absence of the CS, it would have lasted maybe another day before he either outright shoot himself or rushed out to shoot it out, IF he didn't try to slip out in the night.  Yes, CS has the capability to start a fire.  The other option is giving Dorner a chance to get away in the dark. A perimter was set up and MIGHT have seen him but the tree line was fairly close and so were other cabins so there are gaps in what was under observation.

[Big Frank]

If they wanted to drive him out and not kill him why didn't they use non-flammable grenades?

[Sponsor]

[jnevis]

There is no such thing. 

All "diversinary devices," including CS, Flash bangs, rubber ball grenades and the like all have some form of explosive charge.  It may be less than a shotgun shell but they still produce heat.  Some more than others, but any of them will burn.  The CS and smoke types are a chemical reaction that burn a little slower but a flash bang, that only burns for a matter of seconds will light off a structure if it lands next to something flamable.  Look around your house, windows specifically since that's where they'd be tossed, how much compustable material do you have in any particular room?  The couch, newspaper, pile of cloths, ect

[Timothy]

Though we will probably never know, he could have set the fire himself before he took the frontal lobotomy with the 9mm!

Either way, the POS is dead!  LAPD won't suffer or admit to anything untoward... 

[Tyler Durden]

somebody on another thread on another forum who is trained and certified in CS grenades and how they should be employed, said that there were basically two types of CS grenades.

The hot ones he referrred to as burners.  He said they burn real hot on purpose.  It keeps a protestor from picking it up and throwing it back at police.  Those are only supposed to be used outside, because they are a fire risk.

The other kind are the cold ones, and he said those are obviously approved for indoor use. 

[jnevis]

I've never seen them. Even the "cold" smoke markers we used in our survival vest got hot enough to burn your hand. Maximum time you could hold one was about 45 secs, then it was to hot.  It was more than enough to get something to smolder, possibly ignite if it was the right material.

[tombogan03884]

The remarks on the scanner that went out on the air specified "burners".