Author Topic: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank  (Read 9762 times)

mooner

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 09:43:22 AM »
Like I believe was said, the constitution is there to protect the people from the government, not other individuals.  As a business owner you should be able to control ANY aspect of who you do business with and what you allow.  If you don't want to allow whites, blacks, or little green men from entering your property so be it.  Same goes for carrying a weapon.  The likelihood of the former passing muster in our current climate is slim due to political correctness.  What SHOULD happen in such a circumstance (rather than big G interference) is sensible people decide that they do not wish to do business with someone with such extreme views and they go out of business or change their model.  For the record, that should also be the recourse to the latter example.  Shopping or even entering a given privately owned business is not a civil right and has no business being recognized as one.  A private citizen or business cannot violate your civil rights, only government entities can.

I for one will never knowingly do business with an establishment that excluded anyone based on race, color, creed, or the ability to carry a firearm.

Solus

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 10:50:20 AM »
Like I believe was said, the constitution is there to protect the people from the government, not other individuals.  As a business owner you should be able to control ANY aspect of who you do business with and what you allow.  If you don't want to allow whites, blacks, or little green men from entering your property so be it.  Same goes for carrying a weapon.  The likelihood of the former passing muster in our current climate is slim due to political correctness.  What SHOULD happen in such a circumstance (rather than big G interference) is sensible people decide that they do not wish to do business with someone with such extreme views and they go out of business or change their model.  For the record, that should also be the recourse to the latter example.  Shopping or even entering a given privately owned business is not a civil right and has no business being recognized as one.  A private citizen or business cannot violate your civil rights, only government entities can.

I for one will never knowingly do business with an establishment that excluded anyone based on race, color, creed, or the ability to carry a firearm.

I agree, mooner, but with some exceptions.

First is the employees of a private business where the owner had disallowed firearms.  While the employees have the choice not to work there, it is not as flexible a choice as deciding which hardware store gets your business.  Since the employees are somewhat of a "captive audience" the parking facilities available to the employees must allow storage of firearms.  This allows the owner his "rights" and does  not trample the rights of the employees outside of work.  If the employer does not provide parking, then some secure storage to "check" and "claim" firearms at the door would be  needed, with the employer being responsible for the safe keeping of the firearms.

A note about liability.  My take is that if an employer chooses to limit the ability of self defense for employees while at work, they have then assumed responsibility for that defense.  If the employee suffers from a defensible attack while at work, the employer is eligible to be sued for redress.

Another exception would be a private company that has a monopoly on it's service.  The first one I think of is the local cable service.  It is genuinely the sole provider of cable in a region and often, if not always, chosen by the government.  Since customers must do business with that company, they would have similar responsibility as the employer above.

Another area that I can think of would be transportation.  Take the bus line.  The choice to take a bus is likely not a flexible one, it is the best choice by far at the time it is needed.  Therefore the bus line would have similar responsibilities as the employers.  It is not likely that they can provide a secure firearms vault so they would need to allow carry on the buses or they would be denying the right of self defense to customers before and after the ride.  If they do lock up the guns, they would be responsible for the safety of their passengers.

Taxi cabs would come close to a bus line.  Even cabs with different names are often run by the same company, so the choices might be limited and should all cab companies restrict firearms, the choice would be none.

Still thinking about how all this works with other "civil rights".

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 01:39:57 PM »
being able  to prove you could defend yourself in court, with out breaking company policy would be very, very hard.  reality is the chance of a nd is much greater then a sd shoot.  since a nd could cost in the 7 diget range very easy.  i won't even start on going postal.
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

Solus

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 02:32:34 PM »
being able  to prove you could defend yourself in court, with out breaking company policy would be very, very hard.  reality is the chance of a nd is much greater then a sd shoot.  since a nd could cost in the 7 diget range very easy.  i won't even start on going postal.

You don't necessarily have to prove you could have defended yourself.  You might just have to prove that you had no chance to because of company policy, and the company, who assumed that responsibility, failed to do so.

And yes, it might be better odds to go with the No Firearms ruling, but since you put employees at potential risk to save yourself $$, the company should be responsible for that risk, not the employees.

Either you successfully provide the protection of which you deprived them, or you pay for it in full.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 02:51:19 PM »
THat would also be very hard to prove.  Chances are very good, if you had no chance with out a gun, you would have had no chance with one.   then there is the old, what if you start a fire fight and some one is hit, your employer is liable for that.  That could cost untold ammounts.
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #25 on: Today at 02:52:06 PM »

Solus

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 04:02:31 PM »
THat would also be very hard to prove.  Chances are very good, if you had no chance with out a gun, you would have had no chance with one.   then there is the old, what if you start a fire fight and some one is hit, your employer is liable for that.  That could cost untold ammounts.

Either allow your employees the means to defend themselves or assume that responsibility and liability if you faiil.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

TAB

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
are they going to assume the liablity of thier actions?   do you have atleas a 1 mil liquid to put up as a bond?
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

bodean87

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 09:58:35 PM »
This thread is very telling of people's mindsets. One group wants to protect the people the other is focused on money and status.

Solus

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2013, 11:23:44 AM »
are they going to assume the liablity of thier actions?   do you have atleas a 1 mil liquid to put up as a bond?

I'm slow.  You need to be more specific.

Is who going to assume the liability of (for) their actions? 

Why do I need 1 mil liquid for a bond?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

TAB

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Re: No Concealed Carry @ US-Bank
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2013, 11:28:06 AM »
1 mil is a good starting point when it comes to the liabilty one can incure when a employee cares on the job.  I'D personally go no less the  2 mil, 5 would be better.   
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

 

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