Students face being expelled for defending their own lives

[Paraguy]

ABC News' Mosheh Gains and Sandra Petrykowski report:

Two Gonzaga University students are on indefinite probation for pulling out a gun when an intruder allegedly tried to force his way into their university-owned apartment.

Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh were notified Sunday in a letter from the Spokane, Wash., university they had been placed on indefinite probation for violating the school's weapons policy Oct. 24 when a six-time felon knocked on their door and allegedly demanded money.

Fagan said he answered the door to their apartment when he confronted John Taylor, a repeat offender who told him he'd just gotten out of jail.

"I just kind of popped up and opened the door and see Mr. Taylor standing there and he starts explaining how he's homeless and needs money," Fagan told ABC News.

Fagan said Taylor tried to barge in and he called out to his roommate for help. McIntosh entered the room and brandished his gun.

"I drew my pointed weapon at him and at which time he sees me and takes off," McIntosh said.

McIntosh, an electrical engineering major, said he and Fagan called police after the incident and Taylor was arrested.

McIntosh has a concealed weapons permit for his gun but campus police confiscated the weapon and told the seniors they had violated school policy and could be suspended or even expelled.

Even though the incident took place off campus, the building that houses the apartment is owned by Gonzaga and school officials say their rules on no weapons is clearly stated.

"The university policy prohibits the possession of weapons in residential facilities. We also have a similar prohibition on the rest of campus," Vice President of Gonzaga Dr. Earl Martin said.

Fagan and McIntosh say they didn't know anything about the policy, but they wouldn't change a thing as they wonder what would have happened to them if they hadn't been armed.

"Because we were just defending ourselves there is no reason that we should be punished for it," Fagan said.

The seniors said they plan to appeal the school's indefinite probation ruling.

[MikeBjerum]

Having a firearm in your residence is a tricky one as you go state to state.  In Minnesota you can not regulate firearms as a landlord.  Sounds simple, but you also can not have firearms on school property except under certain conditions.  Is a dorm a residence or school property?

Here is the biggest thing in Minnesota law, if I notify the Superintendent, Dean, or person with the highest title, they can grant permission.  My letter to our local schools is written to state that I will carry, the purpose, my credentials, and that if I do not receive a response written denial by a set date the permission is granted.  This letter with documentation is sent, and the Form 3811 is kept with photo copies of everything contained in the packet.

This is how we do it with the State Capitol complex, courthouses, and schools around here.

It is sad that our very own government ignores the Constitution of the United States in this matter, but as long as we know it is out there we need to play the game.  Sad they are expelled, but did they break a written agreement with the school or ignore the proper way of doing thiings?

[TAB]

as m58 pointed out it all comes down to state law.   the gun was discovered, as long it was not an illegal search, how it was found does not matter.   they knew the policy, they may have even signed papers stating they knew the policy.   if they have state law on thier side i hope they sue and get $$$,  if they don't, i hope they are expelled.

[Solus]

as m58 pointed out it all comes down to state law.   the gun was discovered, as long it was not an illegal search, how it was found does not matter.   they knew the policy, they may have even signed papers stating they knew the policy.   if they have state law on thier side i hope they sue and get $$$,  if they don't, i hope they are expelled.

Too bad it won't go to trial...they might get a jury that doesn't believe in persecuting folks under an unconstitutional law no matter if they were foolish enough to agree to it.

Jury Nullification was provided by the Founders for just such a situation.

[TAB]

Not many are willing to do that.

[Sponsor]

[kmitch200]

as m58 pointed out it all comes down to state law.   the gun was discovered, as long it was not an illegal search, how it was found does not matter.   they knew the policy, they may have even signed papers stating they knew the policy.   if they have state law on thier side i hope they sue and get $$$,  if they don't, i hope they are expelled.

By all means...maybe if we all write letters we can get the school to push for public flogging for daring to defend themselves from a 6 time felon. 

[TAB]

it has nothing to do with them defending themselfs.

[Solus]

it has nothing to do with them defending themselfs.

TAB, I know you are thinking that since they agreed to the rules of the University when they signed up they have to follow those rules, but that is flawed thinking.

If a person takes a job and agrees to work for 5 years as a slave of the owner, that is still a violation of constitutional rights and the "slave" cannot be punished for not upholding their part of the deal.

[TAB]

no one made them go to that school or live in those dorms.   

[tombogan03884]

The Supreme Court ruled decades ago that there is no legal requirement to obey illegal laws or rules.
TAB and a few others need to read up on the Nuremberg Trials for a refresher on what happens to people who "just follow orders".