Watch this YouTube video and tell us what you would do?

[SlideRacker]

If I'm with my wife and/or kids, get outside and call 911. If i'm alone, what the hell, clock that fat basterd with whatever I could find whilest he was destracted with his prey. I've been there an done it, but it was a much smaller guy, and I didn't need a clocker knocker. I just picked him up, threw him across the room then held him down until the cops got there.

[JohnJacobH]

Hi there folks,



What would you do?

If you were a bystander?

If you were the cell phone guy?

If you were CCW'ing legally?

A classic example of why you should avoid lunatic people in large groups.  If you listen to the narrator the guy on the cell phone
(in condition white) is apparently making smart aleck remarks to whomever he has called. 

The instigator is clearly the woman who walked and violated protocols.  But if cellphone guy wants to stir the pudding he should
definitely be prepared to stand and deliver. To get creamed by a vicious thug for no reason is not my idea of a good time.

See Walt Rauch's Ten Rules.

Best regards,

[Pathfinder]

Calling 911 and leaving is definitely a good choice, getting a good description of the attacker and his GF and vehicle if possible.

 I would disagree about the CCW issue as there is a very good chance that the victim runs a high risk of permanent bodily injury or death.  There is the "fear of death" question and the self defense and defense of others decision that has to be made.  Just because the combatants are unarmed (and there isn't a guarantee that the attacker wasn't armed in some way-pocket knife visible in pocket, loose clothing hiding a pistol ect-not visible to camera but possibly to someone in the room) and similar in size does not mean that death isn't possible.  Lots of blows to the head and not a lot of fighting back or defense.

 A lot of places the reason people get CCW permits is to defend themselves or family, doesn't that extend to someone you don't know that is being attacked?  Some of these "active shooters" have been stopped by laypersons or off duty LEOs with a CCW but they weren't in the direct line of attack.  Another example of the mental defect that LEO, Fire, EMS, and military personnel have is we tend to go towards chaos instead of away from it.

We had a great thread on this site about this very subject last year, beginning with what to carry in a car - pistol, shotgun or folding carbine. The upshot, from MB and others, was get the heck out of Dodge while you can, especially if you are not a cop or even a LEO. Besides, even LEOs are not obligated legally to intervene in any crime.

In this case, you do not know if this thug the size of Delaware had buddies outside or not, it could escalate very very quickly and very badly. The sheep are standing around watching. Being a sheepdog is one option, but since the thug left after a couple of blows there was little to do since only fists were flying. "He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you.

Self defense begins with problem avoidance, and only if you cannot avoid should you be prepared to use lethal force. Check out Massad Ayoob on this. Depending on the city/state, you could have lots of legal trouble for even pulling a CCW if your life was not in direct danger.

[Tyler Durden]

^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?

I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.

Do you have a link for that also?

Thanks!

[Teresa Heilevang]

Being a woman with a CCW.....hmmmmmmmmmmm... what would I do 

I know what my first split reaction would be to want to  do.. ( as all of us here would want to do)

Bitch Slap the "Ho" first..........and put a round or 6 in "the brother's" empty ass head!

okay....*big deep breath, Teresa*.................................................

I'd call 911 and get as far away in the room as I could from the crazy s.o.b.... but never take my eyes off him.

real gutsy *and probably stupid move : Could throw something at him..hitting him so he would come after me.. and THEN..I would be defending my own life at that point..

 Bang......He's dead. One more scum bag off the street. 

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?

I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.

Do you have a link for that also?

Thanks!

I can't find it on a search.

Marshal / M'ette, do we archive threads off the site after a period of time? It was a thread early on in DRTV's history where we bounced around the ideas for car carry, and MB was looking into a folding stock AK or the like with magazines handy.

I think the thread started because of some urban disturbance like the Juneteenth riots in Chicago or Denver, and the question like here - what would you do if...."

[JohnJacobH]

^^^ well, dude, you gotta link to that other thread then?

I did try a google search for Walt Rauch's list of 10 things, but I couldn't find that either.

Do you have a link for that also?

Thanks!

The Link for Rauch's Rules  is right here:

http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/rauch/28.shtml


There are actually 24 rules. My bad.

[shooter32]

Being a woman with a CCW.....hmmmmmmmmmmm... what would I do 

I know what my first split reaction would be to want to  do.. ( as all of us here would want to do)

Bitch Slap the "Ho" first..........and put a round or 6 in "the brother's" empty ass head!

okay....*big deep breath, Teresa*.................................................

I'd call 911 and get as far away in the room as I could from the crazy s.o.b.... but never take my eyes off him.

real gutsy *and probably stupid move : Could throw something at him..hitting him so he would come after me.. and THEN..I would be defending my own life at that point..

 Bang......He's dead. One more scum bag off the street. 

Right there with ya.. Looks like something (Best Defence) might cover..
shooter32

[JohnJacobH]

"He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you.

Self defense begins with problem avoidance, and only if you cannot avoid should you be prepared to use lethal force. Check out Massad Ayoob on this. Depending on the city/state, you could have lots of legal trouble for even pulling a CCW if your life was not in direct danger.

He's big" is not usually adequate rationale for shooting someone, especially if he was not pounding on you

Actually it is- the legal principle is "disparity of size".  And before We, the People, got tangled up in legal (B)olshevik (S)illiness there was a commonly held principle to defend against imminent harm to yourself AND OTHERS.

Bless Massad Ayoob's heart, he means well, but he seems to delight in spreading unnecessary Fear,Uncertainty, Confusion and Doubt instead of illuminating issues to the advantage of a civilized society.

Part of this is because we have built a legal foundation of bad lawyering, bad cases with the  result of bad law. In many instances
even the District Attorneys, Defense Attorneys and Police REALLY, REALLY do not know the law, the Constitution or the principles thereof.

You can not reclaim your heritage of common sense if you do not advocate for it everywhere, all the time.

Rant off.

[Solus]

I was in a situation like this.

I was in a bar and a guy bigger than me and bigger than the guy he was attacking knocked the victim to the floor and was kicking and stomping on his head.

Without thinking I was out of my chair, had the big guy bent backwards over the bar, my forearm across his throat, my groin in his him left hip, his left arm under my left arm, my right hand pinning his right elbow.  He was effectively subdued.

A buddy I was with came up behind me and I had him watch my back and have other patrons get the victim moved away if possible while I made sure the fightr had gone out of the attacker.

The attacker choked out a reply that he had had enough so I cautiously release him and he bolted out the front door...

I have no idea what the legal aspects of my actions were, but I know I could not stand by and watch someone get beaten like that.  (I'm 6'2 and weigh 220)...

I hope I will always have the courage to act on what I think is right rather than legal if someone's life is in jeaporady....

I did  not have a CCW at the time, but if I  had and the tables were turned on me and the big guy started attacking me, I feel I would have drawn.

Again, I have no idea what the legal aspects there might have been if I did shoot...did I escalate ..or did I use the correct force to stop a beating and then come under an attack that would justify the use of a handgun...

I was contacted by the defense lawyer of the attacker who seemed to be under the impression that there was several of me restraining his client...

The bartender did buy me a beer...and I was thanked by the victim the next time he saw me in the bar...so I guess I did good...especially for the beer