When do we start shooting ?

[tombogan03884]

A direct answer to your question requires the "What happens after?" approach.

Say I go down to my corrupt county commiss meeting and "take care of them", I would be a lone disgruntled citizen, make the news, and go down as some crazed gun owner.

If I go to my lying, bastard gov. here in NC, and "end it for him", I would make the news as a gun nut, and be killed by the NC Highway Patrol.
Chuckie Schumer, the Brady bunch, Even The Anointed One BHO, may give a statement. "The need to reform gun laws,.."etc,..

All this would do is add fuel to the fire for the ANTI-GUN people. and 1 foot fwd. 2 steps back,....thing.

If I did this with a group, we would be classified by the "status quo", just like those militant survivalist groups that hunker down waiting for the end times in Montana somewhere.

Remember the song,..." I fought the law, and the law won ",......

The guy's who stood at Lexington and Concord did not care about the status quo,or "what happens after, they just knew that they could NOT allow the "authorities to recover the arms stolen from Fort William and Mary the previous December, only 1/3 or less of the population ever supported the revolution, with equal numbers supporting the Crown, and sitting on the fence.
Also, there is a big difference between removing venal misguided politicians and "robbing people with a six gun"

[Ron J]

A direct answer to your question requires the "What happens after?" approach.

Say I go down to my corrupt county commiss meeting and "take care of them", I would be a lone disgruntled citizen, make the news, and go down as some crazed gun owner.

If I go to my lying, bastard gov. here in NC, and "end it for him", I would make the news as a gun nut, and be killed by the NC Highway Patrol.
Chuckie Schumer, the Brady bunch, Even The Anointed One BHO, may give a statement. "The need to reform gun laws,.."etc,..

All this would do is add fuel to the fire for the ANTI-GUN people. and 1 foot fwd. 2 steps back,....thing.

If I did this with a group, we would be classified by the "status quo", just like those militant survivalist groups that hunker down waiting for the end times in Montana somewhere.

Remember the song,..." I fought the law, and the law won ",......

 OK ... you had me until you said Montana!!  

Tom  ... you would have been appreciated in 1774.  But today, whacking those who you disagree with is only going to get you strapped to a gurney with a needle in your arm. 

[tombogan03884]

 OK ... you had me until you said Montana!!  

Tom  ... you would have been appreciated in 1774.  But today, whacking those who you disagree with is only going to get you strapped to a gurney with a needle in your arm. 

Two things, I won't get a needle if we win, just like Washington and Franklin were not hung as the Traitors they arguably were. Second, I would actually settle for replacing bullets with Horsewhipping and tar and feathers. In fact I think that is more appropriate, since political execution is usually  reserved for HONORABLE opponents while tar and feathers was used on scoundrels.

One Man shooting one politician is a vain attempt to send a message. One politician is easily replaced and the spin doctors will distort the facts to fit their deranged assailant scenario. Look at John Wilkes Boothe, 150 years later "learned scholars" are still debating what he hoped to gain, DUH! victory in a lost war. Sarajevo 1914, 1 man, killed 1 politician, the world sees that it sparked a terrible war, the fact that it ended with a Yugoslavia free of Austro Hungarian domination is ignored.That one man died, but his cause WON.
However, a Platoon or Company strength unit, seizing an entire state legislature, say Ca. Pelosi, Fienstein, Boxer, tried, convicted and shot for treason (being the domestic threat we are supposed to defend against) Arnie, citizenship revoked, shipped back to Austria, the lesser offenders either deported to an already Socialist country, or barred from future positions of trust.THAT sends a message that can not be spun, the People are fed up ! Don't ask me about specific tactics, that is stuff for the Pro's, my history back round leaves me better prepared to deal with Strategy  and it's implications, than tactics.

[twyacht]

 OK ... you had me until you said Montana!!   G

Sorry Ron, I didn't mean anything by singling out Montana. There are several other states,  If someone like the punk Eric Rudolph can "disappear in the mountains of NC" , until he got stupid,  there's hope I'll be through there, with my son,
 on my way out to the NorthWest. OR:

NH, is also on the list, didn't someone offer to make the coffee and .223's? Tom?

South Carolina had that mindset once, "However, a Platoon or Company strength unit, seizing an entire state legislature, say Ca. Pelosi, Fienstein, Boxer, tried, convicted and shot for treason (being the domestic threat we are supposed to defend against)"

Short time later,.... Ft. Sumter,..... Leave it to a Carolina boy to take the first shot,..and draw a line in the sand.

One day,..

[tombogan03884]

OK ... you had me until you said Montana!!   G

Sorry Ron, I didn't mean anything by singling out Montana. There are several other states,  If someone like the punk Eric Rudolph can "disappear in the mountains of NC" , until he got stupid,  there's hope I'll be through there, with my son,
 on my way out to the NorthWest. OR:

NH, is also on the list, didn't someone offer to make the coffee and .223's? Tom?

South Carolina had that mindset once, "However, a Platoon or Company strength unit, seizing an entire state legislature, say Ca. Pelosi, Fienstein, Boxer, tried, convicted and shot for treason (being the domestic threat we are supposed to defend against)"

Short time later,.... Ft. Sumter,..... Leave it to a Carolina boy to take the first shot,..and draw a line in the sand.

One day,..

Don't have dies for 223, Got .308 and .300 win Mag though   
Fort Sumter is an appropriate comparison, The Commander, a Major who's name I can never remember, was pulled off the job of building a Fort at Portsmouth Harbor so that he could be transferred there

[Sponsor]

[DesertMarine]

Though I'm not believing any kind of planned subversion, I think your view comes from living in close relations to a "fluid" border situation where people crossing the border is common.  Having grown up in the South, living in Louisiana outside Baton Rouge and New Orleans, having traveled extensively in the deep south and Texas and being a bit over 50 years old, I disagree. 

There has been a influence on society from immigration that may not be visible to you due to where you live.  I worked New Mexico the last two years in the oil business, the society there is quite different from other parts of the country and appears oblivious to cultural changes that the remainder of the country sees.  Some of the cultural changes we see in other parts of the country appear to have been always part of the culture of the Southwest.  That's fine for the Southwest, but it riles up the rest of us due to the cliquish nature and consequences of being illegal, for a few starters. 

The changes that you talk about are very noticeable, even here in the Southwest.  The changes are not alarming here as they are to other parts of the country, who is now experiencing changes.  I seem to remember reading about the alarms about how the country would change when the Irish came over in droves and same for other nationalities.  While the 1st generation illegals do tend to stay hidden, their children are adopting American values.  Most 2nd generation young people act just like any other American young person.  Most do not speak Spanish, enjoy Ameican music, getting educated, serving and dying in military service and contributing to our country.  Yes, there are a lot of illegals committing crimes just a lot of Ameican citizens are commiting crimes.  Right now the fad is to publicize what one group of people are doing but pretty soon, the media will look and find something else to raise it ratings and profits.  I am 66 years old, with my family being in Texas/New Mexico since before Texas became a state, and have seen great changes in our country and in my hometown.  We have gone from a segregated town, whites in the north, Mexican in the south and blacks mainly in the south parts of town.  Now, everybody lives where they want and can afford.  Now, people are marrying whomever they fall in love or lust with.  Yes, we are changing but for the better.  What about where the Indians, the Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, the Africans and others are settling and changing our culture. 

Houston...totally different now than it was 20-30 years ago due to illegal invaders.  Dallas, ditto.  Northwest Arkansas...wow...now that is a huge change in culture foisted by illegals.  And this culture is not better than our culture (excluding the welfare handout slime).  Disagree with the culture statement, give me some points where the Mexican culture and lifestyle is an improvement over traditional United States American culture and lifestyle....that is to say where is it better than our culture.  I know there are outstanding individuals...I'm not speaking of people worthy to enter, I'm talking about the preponderence of one culture over another culture.

Nothing stays the same, ever.  Wonder what Houston will look like in 20-40 years from now.   

I chased an illegal Mexican out of my garage in Springfield, Lousiana 15 or so years ago.  He was an itinerant strawberry picker who ended up in the back country one mile off the main road at the very dead end where I lived.  He was where he didn't belong and knew it.....I chased him off with a shotgun but should have called the police...I did not know then what I know now.

I have never had an encounter of that type with an illegal or a black, but have had whites trying to hurt me because of the color of my skin, even when on active duty.  How do I interpet tha?

In Oklahoma, where I have now lived for 12 years, I have seen a pendulum change.  On arrival, not much of an overrun from Mexicans, as housing construction increased along with builder greed, the population of illegal Mexicans skyrocketed.   Undeniably and as so recorded violent crime increased from the Mexicans.  I personally knew a person killed by an illegal Mexican and several who have been robbed or otherwise damaged (car accidents, etc.) and there has been no recourse against them.  Think I'm full of it on the knowing a person killed by a Mexican, look up Randy Berger in Tulsa....his son and my son had finished basketball practice and dad never showed to pick him up.  Illegals are protected by the greedy rich of Tulsa who will not pay a local worker a decent wage....it is wrong to think lower prices are passed on due to savings....greed lines the pockets of "citizens" who hire illegal invaders.  Last year, Oklahoma passed a law making it a felony to hire an illegal...in October 2007, there was a huge exodus and the society is better for it.  Period. 

You hit the nail on the head.  When employeers start paying Ameican citizens an equitable rate and stop employing illegals, the illegal problem will diminish or end.  As long as "Americans" keep providing illegals work in order to make more profit, we will have an "illegal" problem.  Same goes for illegal drugs.  When we as a country stop demanding those types of drugs, then our "war on drugs" will end.  Doubt it will any time soon, too many people making too much money. 

Too many people far different from the society streaming in far too fast who do not honor our traditions.  Though rich people foist it upon the rest of us that still does not make it right.   The traditions of Mexcio are similar to those of the Southwest US, so I do not find it unusual that someone living in the Southwest would not see such a problem as people who live outside the Southwest.  The Southwest culture is "charming" but when a Mexican culture is introduced to the deep South, New England, etc. it is downright alien. 

Well seems like every other part of the country likes the introduction of Mexican culture.  For six years, I traveled extensively throughout the country, from the Atlantic to the Pacific and from Canada to Mexico.  The introduction, then, was being activitely accepted and grew to what it is now.  Now within the last two to four years, it has become alarming. 

Those hardworking people who leave Mexico......seem to have children without those values.   Our culture, U.S. culture is damaged by this damned welfare state which has created victims who will not work.  Illegals who work fill the void for the citizen leaches who do not work.  The illegals seem to have children who add to the leaches born of citizens (not all but more than enough).  All that is happening is adding to a ever-growing future problem which undeniably looms before us.

The welfare problem was here before the illegal problem.  I used to see, in the 60's, while looking for work and going to the employement office in Los Angeles coming out of welfare office and going to employement office to collect checks and then get into their Cadillacs and drive away.  How many generations of welfare families did we create?  I guess the rational will sound like, "but they were Americans and that is ok".  I see too many children of illegals and illegals, working hard to make a living and become a part of this country.  I see a lot of Mexicans, illegal and legal, work two to three jobs to get ahead.  I also see some who won't work and milk the system. 
 
We are heavily taxed to pay for the health care and welfare of illegal Mexicans not to mention the huge cost in tax dollars to increase our infrastructure to support illegals.  We expand highways, schools, hospitals, police, etc. to accomodate the illegals....or do you somehow think 30 million or so people come over with no cost?  I'm damned tired of paying taxes so lazy people can sit on their ass and vote for slugs who give them my money which results in illegals coming to fill the void created by the "citizens" who will not work.  Earned income credit...let's not even talk about the money flushed down that program to buy Hispanic votes.....or in fairness, votes of victim-citizens who will not work.

Totally agree with you.

It is not responsible to overlook the Mexican secessionist movement in California and other places.  It is not responsible to overlook local and state governments that actively disobey laws to prefer illegal Mexicans and push aside U.S. citizens.  It is not responsible to give the wealthy and the politically powerful free reign in destroying our nation so they can achieve their selfish aims. 

That is something I have not seen or heard of except from the pundits or people like Buchanan who need something to keep themselves in the spotlight.  That is something that I don't think will happen.  First, there is no person who can organize or lead the movement.  Second, the numbers seem large but the power and money are not there.  Third, too many American citizens (all flavors) will not allow it.

The threat to our nation is asymmetrical.  It is from within first, from without second.  I do not blame illegals (Mexican and otherwise) from trying to enter to improve their lot, but I shall not embrace them.

That is the real problem.

Hope I figured out the highlights and colors right.  Great discussion.

[DesertMarine]

Forgot to answer Tom's question, "When do we starting shooting?".  The answer will become clear when the situation becomes such that it becomes a necessity.  As always, someone will rise that can motivate the people to take action to protect the country.  The problem would be, how to distinguish between false prophets and the real patriot.  When Ollie North calls, I'll answer.

[PegLeg45]

Two things, I won't get a needle if we win, just like Washington and Franklin were not hung as the Traitors they arguably were. Second, I would actually settle for replacing bullets with Horsewhipping and tar and feathers. In fact I think that is more appropriate, since political execution is usually  reserved for HONORABLE opponents while tar and feathers was used on scoundrels.

Amen, Brother, Amen!
I think public punishment for crimes would possibly be a deterrent (thoughts?).

Say a 15 year old kid gets caught shoplifting. Instead of a slap on the wrist and some lame community service, whip his ass on the courthouse square and have everyone in his school class out to see it. Heck, put it on TV. Like that time in Singapore (I think it was?) where they caned that American kid that got caught spray painting grafitti. Someone else maybe can refresh my memory on this.

Some would say I'm crazy, but I think executions should be televised. Hangings used to be a public affair. Back in the old days, everyone went armed and if you screwed up badly enough, you paid the price by getting shot or hung....and everyone watched.

Of course, this is just my opinion......... which is like an........well, you know the saying. 

[shooter32]

Amen, Brother, Amen!
I think public punishment for crimes would possibly be a deterrent (thoughts?).

Say a 15 year old kid gets caught shoplifting. Instead of a slap on the wrist and some lame community service, whip his ass on the courthouse square and have everyone in his school class out to see it. Heck, put it on TV. Like that time in Singapore (I think it was?) where they caned that American kid that got caught spray painting grafitti. Someone else maybe can refresh my memory on this.

Some would say I'm crazy, but I think executions should be televised. Hangings used to be a public affair. Back in the old days, everyone went armed and if you screwed up badly enough, you paid the price by getting shot or hung....and everyone watched.

Of course, this is just my opinion......... which is like an........well, you know the saying. 

Start shooting - All the touchie - feelies left wingers that took away so much.. Wow, look at all the DISRESPECT our young people have.
Teachers get little if no respect, can't touch little Johnie. Even at elementary age children, it's scary to see. I know it all starts at home..

Puplic display of punishment maybe not a bad idea?
Death row should mean DEATH sooner than later..

Aaahhh Hell, where do I sign up

[TFox2112]

What would it take to get a "Million Patriot" march together? An assembly in Washington D.C. to demand a return toward the constitututional values laid down by the founders. Less government, more individual responsiblity, tax reform, voter reform, immigration reform, etc. I know that many, if not most, are generally dissatisfied with the government. If most are like me, then there is not an abundance of free time in order to become the squeaky wheel. So how can a large enough group be assembled to make enough of an impact to be taken seriously? I think that the silent majority needs to speak up. I am not advocating any violent or forceful action, but the collective conservative voice need to be heard and there must to be a big enough group that their views will be taken seriously and addressed. I feel that it can only come from a grass roots effort.