When do we start shooting ?

[tombogan03884]

We've been following your plan for 80 years and it has been a miserable failure .
We've gone from minor annoyances like a tax system that violates the Constitution to an administration that thinks it's OK to take out unpopular citizens with a missile attack.
Not what I would consider progress.
And I think you mean "Harper's Ferry".
On that subject it is worth noting that the Civil war started in the 1850's in Kansas, and Missouri, long before the fighting became general in 1861.

[Jrlobo]

The Civil War started in 1789 when we allowed the first big compromise (on slavery) to be included in the Constitution, long before any hostilities. And in history, "it can't happen here" usually isn't rued until the day AFTER it happens...kinda like you have to pass the bill so you can see what's in it.

In my opinion, we don't start shooting until after all other recourse is expended. If we claim to be supporters of the Constitution, then we should use that document's provisions to reclaim our rights and restore that document to its rightful place in our country.

[Rastus]

<snip>. If we claim to be supporters of the Constitution, then we should use that document's provisions to reclaim our rights and restore that document to its rightful place in our country.

That would be the first thing to do.  Our founders for years petitioned the English and their King to honor the contracts and covenants they made with us.  They made great efforts to avoid rebellion and then separated themselves with cause when the foundation of separation was self-evident and the recourse was exhausted.  "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. " <snip>.

Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle us.  It's very important to remember that or there will be failure.  The War Between The States may have turned out differently had that thought been foremost and that the effort managed differently. 

Not to be picky here guys, but if this nation "blows up" into a civil war it will not look like the "Civil War" which was actually a war between two nations.  What we will have will be much more like Kosovo, etc.  If that ever happens it will be hell to live and work in a city.

[Rastus]

So, does any of this look familiar today with a few slight twists?

•He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.  
•He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
•He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
•He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
•He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
•He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
•He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
•He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
•He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
•He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
•He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
•He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
•He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their acts of pretended Legislation: ◦For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:  
◦For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
◦For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
◦For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:
◦For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
◦For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
◦For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
◦For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
◦For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

•He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
•He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
•He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
•He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
•He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions

[tombogan03884]

Thank you Rastus.
If I had replied to that post I would have questioned, first his intelligence and then his manhood.

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

Thank you Rastus.
If I had replied to that post I would have questioned, first his intelligence and then his manhood.

Not always a good thing to do.  Even though you and I disagree on things we should remain cognizant that this is often an educational effort and leave rank inflammatory and non-productive comments out of things.  As you know, that's not something I'm always good at.  I need to find that thread where I disagree with something you wrote to spin you up a bit now.

[JoeG]

We've been following your plan for 80 years and it has been a miserable failure .

And I think you mean "Harper's Ferry".

Not My plan as I have not reached 80 yet! I am just playing the cards I am dealt.

Yes it was John Brown' raid that did not spark a rebellion as he had planned. Can you imagine the sheeple actually having enough of a clue to rebel against their twittering mind control trend setters. I am not betting my future on them.

They voted to put BHO back in power. What else do you need to know about their situational awareness?

[tombogan03884]

 50.5 % with wide spread vote fraud being common knowledge.
I will remind you that at the time Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown there were more "Americans" serving in the Kings forces than in the Continental Army.
John Browns raid at Harper's Ferry may not have brought on general fighting in the East but again I remind you, in Kansas and Missouri where he came from there had been open warfare for years of the type that could be expected today, neighbors who thought one way killing neighbors who thought the other way.

[Warrior1256]

Lock and load, here it comes.

[tombogan03884]

Lock and load, here it comes.

Use 'em or lose 'em.
There has to be a line in the sand some where and any one who thinks it can be after gun registration, or confiscation will desreve what they get.