Obama scoffs the Bible

[sanjuancb]

So, solus, enjoy yourself wherever you live, secure in your own warped sense of self-righteousness. Just be decent and leave the rest of us the hell alone to be and do as we believe is right.

...and this is the part where we all say AMEN!

AMEN!

[twyacht]

The most respected man in America walked out onto the the balcony of Federal Hall in full view of the assembled multitude to be sworn into office. The date was April 30, 1789, and the man was George Washington. He was NOT required to put his hand on a Bible, HOWEVER, after he repeated the words that secured his position, he placed his hand on the Bible and added the words, So Help Me God. The Bible was opened to Deu. 28. ( Another one Obama missed while in Rev. Wrights Church for 20 years.)

His Inaugural address began:

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States,..."

Washington was reminding all Americans that leaving God out of our nation's official proceedings was unacceptable to him.

The American Way, has to be traced to it's origins. Of the 55 men who wrote and signed the U.S Constitution of 1787, all but "three" were orthodox members of one of the established Christian churches of the time.

2 were Roman Catholic
2 were Lutherans
2 were Methodists
the rest were Anglican (Church of England), Quakers, Puritans, and Calvinist. (Later known as Protestant Episcopal, Baptists, and Presbyterian).

The wisdom IS, that despite these fundamental beliefs, religeous freedom is a right.

If Obama "scoffs" the Bible, he's ignorant, and forgetting history. 

I don't believe Christians "dominate" anyone, Hell even the Har'e Khrishna's can hand out flowers at public places, or that Kansas church can insult and interrupt Fallen Soldiers funerals, or Tom Cruise can believe in aliens, Wiccans can worship the solstice. Their not "dominated by Christians".

They have the freedom to worship trees, stars, celestial bodies, I don't care pick one,...

I don't thrust my beliefs on anyone, and expect the same from anyone else.

If that's a "Do unto others coincidence," so be it.

BUT, I refer back to the Founding Father's. "One Nation Under God", if mine isn't yours, that's just one thing that makes America great.

[tombogan03884]

Just for the record, the "Christian dominance" comment referred to percent of population.
Also the reason I disassociate myself from organized religion is because of the many narrow minded bigots who use it to justify their particular form of ignorance and fear mongering. I have no problem with God, My problem is with the a$$holes that claim to represent Him. I also don't have to go to a particular building on Sunday to worship him, I worship MY Creator every time my heart keeps beating all day, I thank God for every pretty girl I see, and I know MY God when I see little kids laughing. The church I worship in is not of man, but is the creation of the Lord.

[Solus]

Solus, you from California? Or Europe? You took what Tom was saying, made it personal, and as a result totally blew what he was trying to say.

And you got your facts wrong, another California/Europe thing to do. Right now, in this US, Christianity is under relentless assault by one-worlders, atheists, wiccans and other religions. It is hardly a case where "that Christians dominate other citizens." Those who attack the Christian institutions fail to recognize the second part of the 1st Amendment on religion - "or prohibit the free expression thereof". Thus, kids can be taught nature worship in school (wicca) or Kwanzaa (a socialist screed more than a religion) or forced to adopt muslim names, but crosses around one person's neck are forbidden.

Rather than rise to the bait you have thrown out, and since facts can be taken out of context, ignored, or endlessly debated, I personally think it is time to end this "debate". It is clear you have no real interest in understanding what is and has been going on  this country, only to mindlessly pound your point - over and over and over again, adding little or nothing new. Kinda reminds us of Tab, no???

So, solus, enjoy yourself wherever you live, secure in your own warped sense of self-righteousness. Just be decent and leave the rest of us the hell alone to be and do as we believe is right.

I took Tom's post personal because he prefaced what I responded to with   To Solus

I will also take what you posted personally since you also addressed it to me.

I was born in Chicago, Ill., raised a Catholic, attended 8 years of Catholic grade school, seriously considered becoming a Priest.

I've lived my entire life in the Midwest, except for the time I spend overseas during my enlisted service in the US Army during the Vietnam War.

I would like you to tell me exactly what facts I have wrong? 

The only "fact" I was trying to express was my belief that religions should be treated equally.  If you re-read my posts, you will see that I clearly state that not allowing the Majority Religion, whatever it might be (in this case Christianity), to display their symbols and customs but to allow Minority Religions to do is is hypocritical.

Please show me where in my posts I have done other than speak to my belief in religious equality in government.  True, moving to this equality would mean the removal of certain Christian symbols or allowing the same privilege to other religions.

Sanjuancb posted  "If you are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, hell Zoastrian, I don't care--you are free to live here, but don't think that you can impinge on the rule of the Christian majority under their God."

I find this attitude disturbing.  Shall I assume all Christians posting here are of the same attitude?  In light of this expressed point of view, I do worry about religious equality.

[Solus]

BUT, I refer back to the Founding Father's. "One Nation Under God", if mine isn't yours, that's just one thing that makes America great.

The Founding Fathers didn't place "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, nor did they every speak the Pledge.  The Pledge was written in the late 1800's and the phrase "under God" was not added until July 14th, 1954 (Flag Day).

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

The Founding Fathers didn't place "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, nor did they every speak the Pledge.  The Pledge was written in the late 1800's and the phrase "under God" was not added until July 14th, 1954 (Flag Day).

Solus, you are correct. and I never inferred that The Founding Fathers did place Under God anywhere.

I did however, state the they were men of faith, that founded this Country with "God" in mind. Your quote:

"Please show me where in my posts I have done other than speak to my belief in religious equality in government.  True, moving to this equality would mean the removal of certain Christian symbols or allowing the same privilege to other religions."


As far as Religious "Equality",  the numbers don't add up.  The majority of this country is of Judeo-Christian beliefs. Not Hindu or Muslim, or whatever.     The offset in America is: you CAN worship whatever you want, without persecution. If your specific belief is a minority of the population, than be thankful your not living in China, or the Middle East, where people "disappear" in the middle of the night, for not being part of the Majority.

Similarly, the majority of this country, (for now anyway), speaks English. Should there be "Language Equality" for those that come to this country and don't speak it?

[Solus]

The Founding Fathers didn't place "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, nor did they every speak the Pledge.  The Pledge was written in the late 1800's and the phrase "under God" was not added until July 14th, 1954 (Flag Day).

Solus, you are correct. and I never inferred that The Founding Fathers did place Under God anywhere.

Sorry, Twyacht. I did think you associated the phrase with the Founding Fathers. My mistake

I did however, state the they were men of faith, that founded this Country with "God" in mind. Your quote:

"Please show me where in my posts I have done other than speak to my belief in religious equality in government.  True, moving to this equality would mean the removal of certain Christian symbols or allowing the same privilege to other religions."


As far as Religious "Equality",  the numbers don't add up.  The majority of this country is of Judeo-Christian beliefs. Not Hindu or Muslim, or whatever.     The offset in America is: you CAN worship whatever you want, without persecution. If your specific belief is a minority of the population, than be thankful your not living in China, or the Middle East, where people "disappear" in the middle of the night, for not being part of the Majority.

By equality, I did not mean equality in numbers, but  equality in rights.  If a single person forms a minority group, their rights should be the same as the rights of a majority group of even every other citizen of the country belongs to that majority group.  Rights are not determined by majority/minority status

Similarly, the majority of this country, (for now anyway), speaks English. Should there be "Language Equality" for those that come to this country and don't speak it?

I will answer this, but please do not infer that I mean any relation to my view on religious freedom by this reply on language.

I would not oppose making English the official language of the US.  Language is needed to communicate and there is no practical means to accommodate every possible spoken or written language.  English is the established language in this country and is widely in use as a primary or secondary language in many places.

I would oppose any law making the use of any other language illegal (not that anyone has suggested that as far as I know) but I would also oppose any law requiring the inclusion of any other language in any capacity, i.e government documents, road signs, consumer packaging)

I have mixed feelings about requiring English to be understood as a condition of naturalization.  This is because I have misgivings about the past abuse of reading "tests" for voter eligibility.   

I do feel naturalized citizens must "become" Americans.  A speech by Teddy Roosevelt, I believe, expressed that strongly.   

[twyacht]

"By equality, I did not mean equality in numbers, but  equality in rights.  If a single person forms a minority group, their rights should be the same as the rights of a majority group of even every other citizen of the country belongs to that majority group.  Rights are not determined by majority/minority status"

I agree with you Solus, if 1 or 25 people want to worship a large seashell as a divine idol, in America, they should have every right to do so.  Should seashell icons be placed next to Nativity scenes at X-mas, probably not going to happen on the public square, but if those want to display it on their property, That's great, I have no problem with that at all. I'll save the X-mas debate for another time,...

Please understand this was just a very "general" example leading to a bigger point.

Organized religeon doesn't represent me. For others, it may be a daily event. That's what's great about this country. But I don't think America denies a "minority" religeous group of their "rights". Too many ACLU lawyers, civil right lawyers would love to jump on that train.

The recent events of the Latter Day Saints, or David Koresh's outfit, or the others that have come and gone, ALL had the right (in the beginning), to practice their religeon as they wanted. When it morphed into something criminal, or people were hurt, or individual rights were violated, something had to be done, and the "law" stepped in. 

There are hippy commune's here in the mountains of NC, worship Nature,  total pacifists, vegetarians, make hemp products and sell them. They have just as many rights as the mega church in Charlotte.

I won't make personal remarks, I think that's not my style on a great forum, I enjoy a good debate, and I'll shut myself up now.

Take Care Solus,

Tom W.

[Rob10ring]

"The recent events of the Latter Day Saints, or David Koresh's outfit, or the others that have come and gone, ALL had the right (in the beginning), to practice their religeon as they wanted. When it morphed into something criminal, or people were hurt, or individual rights were violated, something had to be done, and the "law" stepped in. 

What recent events were the Latter Day Saints involved in? If you're referring to the polygamist sect stuff that was recently in the news, that wasn't the actual Mormon church.

Just pointing that out. I'm not meaning to sound over sensitive, or offended.

[Sgt Z Squad]

"We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition, and that every person may here worship God according to the dictates of his own heart. In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States."
George Washington: 1793 - letter to the Members of the New Church in Baltimore