Self Defense using some form of martial arts: where do I start?

[warhawke]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you Tom, McDojo's waste your money and time and give you bad habits that require more money, time and effort to remove. I do not tell people lightly to buy "Kill or Get Killed" and work from the text. I had some friends some years ago who were planning to join a rather large McDojo in the Detroit area, one that I knew well from some other friends of mine who were ripped off by those charlatans. Unfortunately there was little alternative at the time for them, so I told them I would train them but it would take some time before I could do so as I had numerous other commitments. I told them to get KoGK and practice until I could get the free time (Honestly, I did it mostly to keep them occupied until I could get free). I was amazed when, almost three months later I managed to pry out enough time to get training with them, I had very little to teach them! All I had to do was help them refine their techniques and give them pointers on training for scenarios. After two months working with them (one day a week for 2 or 3 hours a day, they worked a couple days a week together as well) they were good enough to make me work to take them down and by the end I had to use advanced techniques to do it at all (can't let the young pup's get to cocky don't ya know).

Self training, alone or with your buddies, out of a book is not the best way to handle things, just as going to the range with your buddies is no substitute for good shooting school training. However it is better than having some schmuck take your money to teach you the crap he learned when he studied with Steven Seagal at his local VCR. Learn as, how and what you can and work to improve over time. If you and your bud's can't afford to go to a good school, pool your money and send the best teacher among your group and have him come back and teach the rest. Go down to the local VFW or AL and get to know some of the old guys there. One of the people who taught me when I was young, was a friend of my dad's from the 82nd Airborne Assn. who was OSS in WWII, he was old and not the best physically but he imparted priceless lessons and training to one young teenager. Just because a guy doesn't wear funny cloths and call himself Sifu does not mean he has nothing to teach. Resources are all around us, we just have to recognize and use them.

P.S. No I didn't rough up the guys I trained just to show how big and bad I was. I only used advanced stuff to show it was out there and (as much as I could) how to deal with some of it. I will admit though, I sometimes needed the ego boost, those guys got pretty good.

[warhawke]

Warhawke, great post, obviously based on real world experience. I always wondered about the problems the guys had when they  pounded their fists into trees and posts to build up their power.

Actually we used 12 to 8 inch squares of ice 2 to 3 inches thick, plywood squares about 12 inches square (built up till some guys were doing  2 or 3 layers of 1/2 inch), one time we got an old skeleton model (from the days when they used real bones!) and practiced breaking them. The biggest part was using buckets or bags of sand and gravel and struck them with fists, elbows, knees, ect. or rope covered boards (4x4's 2x12's etc.) either freestanding, swinging from ropes of nailed to the walls. We would sometimes do like that show "Human wrecking ballls", we would get permission to go into houses that were being torn down and tear them up with our bodies. Today I look back and wonder what we were thinking back then, I sometimes suspect we all had testosterone poisoning. 

Well, as old, soft and broke-down as I am I still am more then most punks can chew, and I am starting to get back in shape. The job at the pellet mill did one good thing, it slapped me in the face with how bad I let myself go after my injury.

[saltydogbk]

  If you are in the Orlando area try Traditional Martial Arts taught by Susan Jackson. They are ZDK affiliates and are the real deal.  You can also look for a place at dojos.com.  I started training at 50.  While I am still overweight, old and slow, I'm more than most want to bite off.  I also am one of the martial artists that can appreciate the use of a gun.  Just because karate means empty hand, doesn't mean thats the way I'm gonna go.  As far as what style, whatever you are comfortable with.  I prefer to stay off the ground, you will get kicked.  MMA is the current fav for many, but too much ground and pound, on the street that will get you beat bad.  Thats my 2 cents, good luck

[deepwater]

I think the biggest worry of us on the forum is... how to get a gun away from a BG when he surprises us by drawing first. do we learn MA, or look for specialized training in disarming these guys. there are times when the BG is preventing us from pulling our own guns because they have surprised us,... so how do we get theirs away from them, or, pointed elsewhere..
        do we 'act panicked' and use his complacency (as we hand them what we've got) as an oportunity to pull our own? of course, not all of us can or will be carrying when we run into this situation (if, god forbid, we DO run into this situation).

EVERY situation is DIFFERENT.. the best defense is being ready for the unexpected, and reacting as the situation demands.

so should this thread focus more on what those of us that are not in the best physical condition can do to protect ourselves and our families?  I think this is what we SHOULD focus on considering the majority of us are over 30. except, of course, M'ette 

[Pathfinder]

I think the biggest worry of us on the forum is... how to get a gun away from a BG when he surprises us by drawing first. do we learn MA, or look for specialized training in disarming these guys. there are times when the BG is preventing us from pulling our own guns because they have surprised us,... so how do we get theirs away from them, or, pointed elsewhere..
        do we 'act panicked' and use his complacency (as we hand them what we've got) as an oportunity to pull our own? of course, not all of us can or will be carrying when we run into this situation (if, god forbid, we DO run into this situation).

EVERY situation is DIFFERENT.. the best defense is being ready for the unexpected, and reacting as the situation demands.

so should this thread focus more on what those of us that are not in the best physical condition can do to protect ourselves and our families?  I think this is what we SHOULD focus on considering the majority of us are over 30. except, of course, M'ette 

Very Zen = prepare for nothing so you are prepared for everything.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

If your finger gets between the hammer and frame, or behind the trigger the gun can not fire, if you grab the barrel you have leverage to keep it pointed away from you, are these things going to hurt ? Of course, but not as much as getting shot.

[TAB]

If they already have thier gun drawn... not to much you can do.  Yes you can grab the cylinder on a wheel gun, or froce the slide out of battery on an auto, but the chance of you getting shot is in the 99.99999% range if you do that.   Deflecting the gun gives you a better chance, but the odds still suck.

[fullautovalmet76]

FWIW,  I would encourage you to look for a Personal Defense Readiness coach in your area of visit Tony Blauer's website and look into his programs, seminars or DVDs.

PDR is a great place for anyone to start in unarmed combatives. I've been a PDR Coach/SPEAR Instructor since 2001/02. The program is very intuitive and based on bridging efficiently between the body's natural reaction to close quarters ambush and an effective response.

-RJP

Thanks to Rob and others who took the time to post on this thread. I really received some valuable insight. In today's DR podcast and on an old Shooting Gallery episode, Michael and Michael (I guess that's Michael squared  ) covered some of what I was thinking when I posted this topic.

My intuition tells me most of the violent encounters I could possibly encounter will be with those who are unarmed or they do not have a weapon drawn and ready to use; but I reserve the right to be wrong on that one.....

The points made about having realistic expectations are well taken. To me it is like other disciplines, it takes time to be really good at them. So for me, it seems like Krav Maga might be the solution for me.

I have no illusions. I do not have any expectations of ever having a PhD in "Billy Badassology". I am a 40 year old male and I want to get the most practical training I can find. I have read parts of Kill or Get Killed and thought it was good; I especially liked the parts about using full auto weapons.  I need to go buy the book and keep it in my library.

My last question is this: If I am to evaluate an instructor and/or school, what questions should I ask? Right now, I don't know what questions to ask other than, "Did you get your training watching 'Kung Fu Theatre'?" You can tell I grew up in the '80s.....

[m25operator]

Watch the training and talk to the participants, ( customers ), go more than one time, does it look like ritual, or does it look like training??? Does the training look like what you want?

[sanjuancb]

Ask to participate in a class to determine if it is a good fit---then evaluate the class on your bumps, bruises, strains, and soreness the next day! 

But really, you need to feel the effectiveness in the techniques, not go through endless kata of useless motions.