Disarming citizens during traffic stops

[tt11758]

The last time I got pulled over I handed the cop my CCW along with my DL.  Has asked me if I was carrying and when I replied yes he invited me to join him in the front seat of his squad car, where we proceeded to have very pleasant conversation about guns and shooting, and he took the opportunity to admire my sidearm.  After our little chat he wished me a nice evening and sent me on my way without a ticket.


Back in the days when I was a LEO, unless the person was someone I knew I ALWAYS took control of their firearm until we finished conducting our business.  To quote Clint Eastwood in the film Pink Cadillac, "I have a very firm policy on gun control, if there's a gun around I want to be the one controlling it."

In response to TAB, the officer is being honest when he or she says that they're doing something "for your protection as well as mine."  Cops develop a mindset early on that no matter what happens they're going home at the end of the shift.  If that means that you have to shot for that to happen, tough shit.  Cold and callous, but considering some of the dirtbags these people deal with I find it completely understandable.

One final thought, several posters have mentioned that being a LEO doesn't necessarily mean than an officer is firearms savvy.  While this is true, one must also remember that a CCW doesn't guarantee that it's holder is firearms savvy.  There are people with CCW's who get them just to be albe to say they have them.
 

[ismram]

"I have a very firm policy on gun control, if there's a gun around I want to be the one controlling it."
tt11758
How did you get control f the persons F/A, when you were a LEO? Did you ask the person too remove it, or did you do it for them?

[tombogan03884]

Tom, What else is lacking is a think called Common Sense! It was once common, now it seems rare.

Ain't it the truth

[tombogan03884]

I've had Game wardens tell me they would yank my Hunting license If I didn't unload my rifle before handing it over, I would Act the same way with a cop, TELLING HIM what I was doing and why.

[bbbean]

I think its important to note that state laws vary on whether you are obliged to tell a LEO you are armed. My state (MO) does not require it.

The question of whether to notify came up years ago when I took my CCW class. The LEO teaching the class replied (I paraphrase): "If I want to see your gun, I'll ask for it. I didn't pull you over to play show and tell. If your gunis safely in your holster, your console, or your glove compartment, we'll all be safer if it just stays there. Use some common sense. If I ask you to open the glove box, you should tell me there's a gun in there, but otherwise I don't need to know."

Basically, his attitude was that he approached EVERY driver as if they were armed. The passage of the CCW law just meant that there were a few more good guys packing, but he was still a lot more concerned with behavioral and verbal cues to tell him who was dangerous than he was the presence of a CCW. As he pointed out "y'all are the good guys." He also said that if he was concerned about controlling th esituation, he'd rather take the driver back to his car than to be passing loaded guns around.

Interestingly, his attitude towards unnecessary gun handling also applied at the range. He made it clear that when he ordered us to cease fire, he wanted us to set our guns down on the table in front of us instead of holstering or holding our guns. As he pointed out "I've never seen a gun shoot itself, and as long as that gun is sitting on the table and you aren't touching it, its about as dangerous as the stapler on my desk." 

Personally, I take a don't ask, don't tell attitude. If I'm pulled over, I get my papers out, turn on the lights, and say yes sir a lot. But the gun stays where it is unless there's some reason to tell the officer about it.

 

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

In response to TAB, the officer is being honest when he or she says that they're doing something "for your protection as well as mine."  Cops develop a mindset early on that no matter what happens they're going home at the end of the shift.  If that means that you have to shot for that to happen, tough shit.  Cold and callous, but considering some of the dirtbags these people deal with I find it completely understandable.


 

There is a diffrence between saying for both our safety and just yours.  The "i'm going home at any cost" stick is one of the major probs with LEOs .they have lost the "protect and serve" deal for , "i'm better then you are"  Its all over the plave, it just shows its ugly head when it comes to guns.

[MikeBjerum]

I've had Game wardens tell me they would yank my Hunting license If I didn't unload my rifle before handing it over, I would Act the same way with a cop, TELLING HIM what I was doing and why.

While doing stuff this weekend I have been thinking about this thread.  I had thought the same thing ... I would explain what I was going to do, and unload the gun before handing it over ... for their safety and mine.

Remember, and this is what the Conservation Officer was referring to, you never hand a loaded firearm from one person to another.  You at a minimum open the action, but preferably drop the magazine, check the chamber and leave the action open.

[Sgt Z Squad]

Guys and gals, I have been a sheepdog in L.E. for over 29 years. The instances where I have come across a licensed person carrying, I have instructed them to keep their hands away from the firearm and there would be no problem.

In Connecticut, there is no requirement to notify a L.E.O. about carrying one. However, if you are being asked to exit your vehicle, I would encourage you, with your hands on the steering wheel, telling the officer that you have a valid permit and are armed, and ask for his next instructions.

In the case of the Washington Trooper, with the obvious intoxcated driver, there would have been a backup call right off and yes, the gun would have been placed in my car for safe keeping. Alcohol, drug use while carrying cancels out the maturity and common sense of the possessor.

If I am stopping for a red light or other infraction, guess what, I don't need to know. Do you think the GB (guilty b#st#rd) is going to tell me? So like one of the other lawdogs stated I practice this principle: "I treat everyone as I would want to be treated, but I do have a plan to kill them."

Working with many young guy and gal sheepdogs; there is a lot of ignorance and unfamiliarity with firearms, because most have no military experience and have limited firearms exposure, mostly confined to department weapons only. A lot of "know-nots" claim to be experts, and I give you one example for your edification and entertainment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

By the way, if you are a CCW; remember it is up to us to act in a way that reflects the great responsibility we have been given in all the ways of our life. Please know that most law dogs support the right to carry by citizens and realize that most recent active murderer (shooter) scenarios that have been interrupted reducing the mayhem has been early intervention by an armed citizen or off-duty lawdog. There are alot of sheepdogs in our society who do not wear a badge, and I salute all of you. Act accordingly. Stay safe!

[twyacht]

However, if you are being asked to exit your vehicle, I would encourage you, with your hands on the steering wheel, telling the officer that you have a valid permit and are armed, and ask for his next instructions.

Thank you Sgt. Z.

The LEO's I have known at an off duty level, all reinforce your mindset.

If I get pulled for "whatever", but am a sober non-confrontational citizen, I disclose the fact that I am armed, and am compliant with the officers instructions. For better or worse, as I have done in the past, I handed my Model 411 S&W .40 to a Char-Meck officer and got it back unloaded. Warning for the brake light, and a very cordial interaction.

Had my attitude been different, I can only assume the LEO would have treated me accordingly. I refer to Ichiban's "How not to get your ass kicked" video.

[callithump]

I pulled in behind a pick up in a gas station to tank up. The pick up driver was passing gas, his un-holstered hunting pistol was stuffed under the windshield on the dash and a cop had just backed in at his 2 oclock. The Officer took a few moments to size things up then went to the fellow, asked about the gun then told the guy to put his hands on the hood and wait. The Cop opened the drivers door and it stayed open between them while he went in through the drivers door and retrieved a single action .44 Ruger. I stood there watching him try to push the cylinder out and after a few moments I shuffled up behind him and told him to pull the hammer to half cock - open the gate and turn the cylinder. He seemed to get it but I finished quickly and got out of there. I think every Cop should be required to spend some of their own time at a gun store going through the samples till they've figured them all out. As for the wounded Cop Chick it seems that more than a few of them here in WA State have been killed through what seem to be poor tactics.