Author Topic: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.  (Read 8984 times)

runstowin

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'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« on: April 20, 2009, 12:41:45 PM »
Warning: from World Nut Daily.

By Drew Zahn
Author Charl Van Wyk, who shot back at terrorists attacking a church meeting, will be touring the U.S. with tales of his African ministry, including his first-hand experience with Christian churches that aren't prepared to defend themselves.

Van Wyk's story of shooting back on July 25, 1993, when terrorists attacked and killed 11 people and injured another five dozen at a South African church, has been chronicled in "Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense."

But police later told him the terrorists confessed their plan was to kill everyone in the church, possibly 1,000 people or more, and his armed response is credited with saving many lives that day....

Through his ministry with Frontline Fellowship, however, Van Wyk has been working in regions that could be called "war-torn" sections of Africa, except that in the Congo, for example, there is no one shooting back, no one armed like he was during the St. James Massacre to prevent further bloodshed. Rather than calling these places "war-torn zones," Van Wyk contends, they should simply be called "murder zones."....

In Christian circles, Van Wyk concludes, there is an additional imperative to be armed for self-defense.

"The Apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy, 'But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially of those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever,'" noted van Wyk. "Provision includes providing security. In fact our Lord Jesus taught, 'If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"

Quoting Jesus again, Van Wyk added, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself,'" he said. "Are we loving our neighbor when we stand by and do nothing when he is being murdered or a woman is being raped?"

Van Wyk's experience in regions of Africa where criminals are armed but the citizenry is not has seasoned his perspective, but he warns that Americans cannot fail to be diligent in protecting their Second Amendment rights.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94591
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fightingquaker13

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 02:20:15 PM »
Warning: from World Nut Daily.

By Drew Zahn
Author Charl Van Wyk, who shot back at terrorists attacking a church meeting, will be touring the U.S. with tales of his African ministry, including his first-hand experience with Christian churches that aren't prepared to defend themselves.

Van Wyk's story of shooting back on July 25, 1993, when terrorists attacked and killed 11 people and injured another five dozen at a South African church, has been chronicled in "Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense."

But police later told him the terrorists confessed their plan was to kill everyone in the church, possibly 1,000 people or more, and his armed response is credited with saving many lives that day....

Through his ministry with Frontline Fellowship, however, Van Wyk has been working in regions that could be called "war-torn" sections of Africa, except that in the Congo, for example, there is no one shooting back, no one armed like he was during the St. James Massacre to prevent further bloodshed. Rather than calling these places "war-torn zones," Van Wyk contends, they should simply be called "murder zones."....

In Christian circles, Van Wyk concludes, there is an additional imperative to be armed for self-defense.

"The Apostle Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy, 'But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially of those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever,'" noted van Wyk. "Provision includes providing security. In fact our Lord Jesus taught, 'If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"

Quoting Jesus again, Van Wyk added, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself,'" he said. "Are we loving our neighbor when we stand by and do nothing when he is being murdered or a woman is being raped?"

Van Wyk's experience in regions of Africa where criminals are armed but the citizenry is not has seasoned his perspective, but he warns that Americans cannot fail to be diligent in protecting their Second Amendment rights.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94591
Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up ;D). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 03:48:52 PM »
Interesting post runtowin, and its one I struggle with. I know this board is about guns not theology but its worth mentioning (since you bring it up ;D). I'm an Episcopalian, to probably no one's surprise, but I did teach 4 years at a Quaker school, and learned a lot from them. On the one hand, carrying a gun into a church seems like sacraliege, on the other, life happens, no matter where you are. Its a tough call. It brings up that question Rob keeps raising about should and could. I've recently decided to carry in church (thanks to advice from this board), but I don't like it. Se la guerre I suppose.
fightingquaker13

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Sgt Z Squad

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 04:08:48 PM »
I have been approached by my pastors inquiring if I carry while at church and they are reassured that I do. However, that does not cover times when I or other sheepdogs are not there. They really need a plan.
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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 04:26:25 PM »
Until recently, I would have had a problem feeling comfortable carrying during church services.  I always thought that if you were ever truly safe in any location it would be the church.  The recent acts of violence perpetrated on these grounds have changed my mind, however.  Many others in my congregation were enlightened far earlier than myself.  In fact, some of the ushers, I was just recently informed, are required to carry due to security concerns which included threats against our pastor.  It's a shame that their is no safe haven from evil in this world, but until I reach the next one, hostility will be met with return fire. 

Swoop
 
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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:35:59 AM »

runstowin

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 04:31:51 PM »
It is unfortunate that churches can't be sanctuaries. I appreciate the fact that some in the Downrange have recognized the need to make the church a safer place.
Rights are like muscles, when they are not exercised they atrophy.

PegLeg45

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 04:44:06 PM »
CCW in church is still a no-no in GA. It came up for a legislative vote again this past session, but failed, again.
I believe it should be legal.
I do have some mixed emotions as to whether I would be at total ease with it for myself even though I CCW every day (but then again, are CCW folks ever at total ease?...but that's another thread). I would probably limit it to a small pocket pistol, JIC.

I guess to sum it up: I trust in God unwaveringly.........it's the evil souls here on earth I have a problem with.


"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

SwoopSJ

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 04:58:56 PM »
I would probably limit it to a small pocket pistol, JIC.

I guess to sum it up: I trust in God unwaveringly.........it's the evil souls here on earth I have a problem with.

I carry a S&W 642 in order to be as discreet as possible.  The last line of your post immediately brought a t shirt I saw long ago to mind.  It read:  "Smile, Jesus loves you!  It's the rest of us that think your an A-hole."

Swoop
"...to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..."  --Richard H. Lee

PegLeg45

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 05:22:11 PM »
I carry a S&W 642 in order to be as discreet as possible.  The last line of your post immediately brought a t shirt I saw long ago to mind.  It read:  "Smile, Jesus loves you!  It's the rest of us that think your an A-hole."

Swoop


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"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

tombogan03884

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Re: 'Shooting Back' author: Why guns, church must mix.
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 05:27:59 PM »
Churches have NEVER been "Sanctuaries" unless the Parishoners were determined and prepared to make them so.

 

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