Some Advice for an Aussie situation

[philw]

just wondering if you can help out a Mate

the aria he is up North of Australia 



this is a situation he was in last Sunday

 

40 Person All in Brawl

I was just finishing washing up at about 8pm on Sunday night when the sound of a large crowd came across the cool night air.  At first I thought that it was some kids playing footy in the local park but as the sound became louder my wife and I could hear the language, threats and sounds of things getting smashed.  I went to put our bin out and while I was doing so (and trying to work out where the fight was going on) a bloke ran up my street carrying a bloody cane knife.  I went back inside and decided that my .223 needed a thorough cleaning from the previous weekend so I took it out of the safe and into the lounge room.

The sounds continued and the odd fkwit ran up the street carrying iron bars, bits of timber etc.  The "riot" was about 150 metres away in another street and things just kept going and going.

After about 20 mins to half an hour the police began to arrive and shortly after the noise died down.

The next morning the Scenes of Crime people were still at the house where the "riot" occured taking photos etc.

It turns out that a large group of people from Woorabinda (Aboriginal community about and hour and a half West of Rockhampton) had turned up at someones house armed with iron bars, knives etc and attempted to get in.  It said in the paper that the people in the house (I suspect well known to the other group) held them at bay until police arrived but they were pretty pissed off it took half an hour to get there.  In the end only one person was injured from getting belted with an iron bar and the property damage doesn't seem to be too bad.

We had a similar (but smaller) episode in my street a couple of years ago and it was pretty bloody frightening watching people a few doors up getting bashed in their own front yard by drunken louts.  A car was even set on fire.

I made it pretty clear to everyone what would happen to them if they entered my property and we didn't suffer any damage at all.  I couldn't go and assist the neighbours because it would leave my wife and young children exposed so it was a sad case of protect my own arse and leave everyone else to fend for themselves!

I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for the people a street over when there were 40 of the bastards terrorising the neighbourhood.

My point (finally) is that I would urge everyone to consider how they will react if they get caught up in one of these "riots" given the fact that in a large regional city like Rockhampton you can be sure that the police will take at least 20 minutes to respond.  That is a long time when these thugs are in full battle mode.

Everyone needs to do some planning about how they will preserve their safety if something like this goes off in their street and gets totally out of control.  Obviously if you have thugs attempting to set your house on fire, or trying to break down the front door with your family inside then we all know what needs to be done and will set about doing it as best we can.  Where things get difficult is deciding if/when/how we will respond to the destruction of our property. Do we resolutely stay inside and not get involved if they start trashing our car in the driveway?  What if they start killing the family dog or throwing rocks through the windows? How do we react if they actually manage to break in to the old lady's house across the road etc?

Anyone else given this any thought?

so as he asked,   what would be a way to react with this type of situation


I am interested in 2 ways

firstly  the USA way


secondly   how we could legaly over here,   remembering here in Australia  owning a firearm for self defense is a no no

as we really only have Reasonable force for self defense

[fightingquaker13]

Reasonable force versus firearms, whats the difference? Here in the US the basic rule of thumb is you can use deadly force (of whatever flavor) if a "reasonable person" would believe that their life or the life another was in danger. This means no killing over property and only assisting someone else if you can make the case that their life is danger. There are two big exceptions to this rule, both covered under what is called the "castle doctrine". The first part of that,which appllys inevery state that I know of, goes back to English common law's notion that a man's home is his castle. There is zero duty to retreat and just by entering, they are presenting a threat. The larger and more controversial version of this is that there is no duty to retreat anywhere. You still can't kill over property, but you can stand your ground, and if they threaten your life.....welll. Only some states have expanded it this far and a wise man wouldn't test it. How does this differ from OZ?
FQ13

[Hazcat]

Phil,

I think he handeled it well.  He had no choice but to protect his own.

I know on my street I am probably the only armed house (other than my GF two doors down).  If the SHTF here I would call a friend who could be here in under 10 minutes and other than that it would be 'protect my own'.

If it is only property damage being done to neighbors "Oh Well, they need to man up and arm themselves".  Quite honestly there isn't anyone around here I give a shit about enough to put my life in jepardy for (and yes, I actually know my neighbors).

If they start onto my property they get one warning (if there is time) then it's shoot to defend.

[Timothy]

Phil,

I've got to agree with both posts thus far.  My home, even in MA, is covered under the Castle Doctrine, my neighbors house is his problem.  We are talking about an isolated incident and not some form of all out rioting of thousands of people here.  Should it get to that point, I'm bugging out anyway and again, my neighbors will have to decide whats best for them and theirs...

Your buddy did the right thing IMO...

[JSC3ATLCSO]

In Iowa we don't have the "Castle" Law.  As of now we are to retreat if possible and let them do whatever to the property.  Intent, Capability and Opprotunity...  Does said BG have the intent to kill or harm you.. Does he have the capability.. Does he have the Opprotunity.  The three questions that have to be asked and answered in Iowa within ohh.. I'd say 3 milliseconds..

J

[Sponsor]

[ratcatcher55]

As long as they are focused on beating the crap out of somebody else, I would leave them be.

If they ended up at your door you'll have one chance to convince them they are going to be making a life ending mistake.
If they don't leave it's as hard and fast as you can hit them.

You maybe surprised to find out a home owner with a rifle is scarier to a mob than several cops in riot gear.
The cops have rules concerning the use of force, the homeowner maybe just crazy enough to just start blazing away.

[long762range]

You maybe surprised to find out a home owner with a rifle is scarier to a mob than several cops in riot gear.
The cops have rules concerning the use of force, the homeowner maybe just crazy enough to just start blazing away.

Phil, you need to move with your wife to Texas.  Big skies, people spread out, hot as blue blazes in the summer.  You would feel a home.   

Any act of violence is brought before the Grand Jury here.  If they believe a crime was comitted they will bring a decision to prosecute.  The situation you decribed, a home owner defending himself, his family, or another person, it is unlikely a True Bill would be brought.  Even if it is the Prosecution has to convince 12 Texans that the defense was not warrented.  Not an easy job.

I think that the sight of my "Evil Black Rifle" would deter most crowds of drunken rioter.   
 

[tombogan03884]

 If you have no other option then defend yourself and your family and f$#k the law, it's better to see your family on visiting day than visit a stone in a cemetery. "Stuff", things can be replaced, lives can't.
Here in NH, in my home I have no duty to retreat, on the street I do, however I'm nearly 50 with a prior heart attack, so I will not be running far or fast.
In respect to defending "others" neighbors etc. circumstances would have to dictate reaction.

[jaybet]

In New Jersey we have a cutsey little Dimocrat rule that says you have to retreat or escape until you are cornered with no possible escape path and be in fear for your life- all that before you can fire on an attacker. So that pretty much leaves out defending the neighborhood, although if a neighbor was going to be killed and it was one of the ones I like, I'd probably forget about the rules and live off the taxpayer for the rest of my life.
It's a different thing everywhere because we all have different rules.

[Texas_Bryan]

If some mob shows up and is intent on breaking into my house, with my family in it, they get one warning, in the form of one shot into the crowd.  If that doesn't work then I'll start emptying mags, I don't want to hurt anyone, but I'll have very little sympathy for a crazed mob with my family's or my well being at stake.  If its my neighbor then things get a bit complicated, I'd have to seriously study the situation and make a decision.  I don't think I'd allow them to be hurt, if I felt that was the case I'd intervene, but I wouldn't compromise my safety or put myself in a legal situation to save a neighbor's car.  It's easy to say 'they're on their own' but you got to remember the women folk and kids, and how you going to carry that neighbor dieing because you didn't want to open yourself up to legal liability.  It's probably easy to say that living in Texas, so I can understand if you feel differently.  Rocks through window equals shot, Molitov bombs equals shot, and hurting my animal property equals shot.  But mob standing outside yelling isn't code black.

And the story doesn't say why the mob is assaulting this fellow, or I missed it.  I'm sure your law in Australia are alot like UK, defend yourself and its life in prison.