Author Topic: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.  (Read 24222 times)

blackwolfe

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2009, 01:49:16 AM »
 Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 11:52:15 AM »   

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Everything in nature has its own 'frequency'. This frequency can be tuned, in rifles, by systems such ad the BOSS system and others. Some work by lengthening or shortening the barrel in small increments.

Peg, How do you lengthen the barrrel?
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. "    Abraham Lincoln
 


Wolfe

fightingquaker13

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2009, 01:56:53 AM »
Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Peg, How do you lengthen the barrrel?
One of those plastic pump thingies? ;D
FQ13 who will be in the corner

blackwolfe

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2009, 02:37:05 AM »
M25,  thank you for the explanations in a manner that a simple man can understand.  I had the concept in my foggy mind and you helped to clear it up some.  The Ruger Mini 14 has one of those wimpy barrels on it that probably suffers from this based on a lot of the accuracy complaints I've heard.  The newer ones have a bit heavier tapered barrel and the target one has an adjustable thingy on the end.  For years guys have been adding differant kinds of brakes, flash hiders, and shortening the barrels with various degrees of success.  In addition some mess with bolt buuffers, piston buffers, and differant sized gas port bushings.  I think what happens is that sometimes they get lucky and hit a sweeter spot and get much better accuracy.  Some use this device or variations of it, or some times similar homemade devices. 
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=59b0980af269614eb2cd064389f0cf06&f=106

Clark Custom guns use to offer a rubber donut of some type for the Mini, but have dicontinued them.

On the Ruger 10-22 carbine model I've know people to either remove the barrel band or relieve the inside of it as it is for show and is not needed to secure the stock.  As far as the international full stocked model mentioned earlier the front nose cap may not even touch the barrel.  I haven't looked at one in a long time, but seems to me it it was fastened to the stock and the muzzle end of the cap had a larger hole or channel in it than the barrel diameter.  By the way I love the looks of the Ruger international model bolt guns and think they are a beatiful, classic, artistic design. 
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. "    Abraham Lincoln
 


Wolfe

PegLeg45

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2009, 06:58:45 PM »
I would really like to know why it does not work with .338 and .375, physics are the same.

Tom as happens with certain things, you as a machinist have not had less than perfect circumstances, have you ever started a piece and felt the vibration?? And if you just put your hand on the work, being machined, felt it calm down?? Now this does mean something is wrong, and you probably stopped and adjusted the tension on the vise, or the angle of the cut, in our less than perfect world, sometimes we put our hand on it, and complete the cut. I am an amateur machinist, but have learned a lot, I have been cutting brake discs for 30 years and dampening bands have always been a part of the process,. But I will defer to a master machinist every time. It seems that you have not used this particular technique though??

Haz, I answered the question with a lot of detail, why do you doubt me??????????????

They have one for those calibers. What I meant was that one unit works for all but those and the other unit works for them. It also has different threads so they can't be confused.

Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 11:52:15 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything in nature has its own 'frequency'. This frequency can be tuned, in rifles, by systems such ad the BOSS system and others. Some work by lengthening or shortening the barrel in small increments.

Peg, How do you lengthen the barrrel?

The barrel itself is not lengthened as to the rifling itself, just the overall rifle length to a minute extent. Pardon me on that one, I was in a hurry... and trying to get on screen what was in my head (that's why I'd never be a teacher because it don't always come out how I mean). The unit itself is 2" long and has about 3/4" of in/out adjustment. If you screw it out to make a larger chamber, it does in effect lengthen the overall length a little....but that's not what I was trying to say....I just muddled it up.

Now, what it does, according to Browning, and also as M25 explained in an earlier post, is vary the pressure of the escaping gasses (like an expansion chamber) in order to hopefully create equal pressure all the way around the bullet as it exits the rifling. Any minute pressure imbalance as the bullet exits will cause deviation. That's also the reason for some recessed target barrels, as they square the rifling to the barrel to optimize exit pressure around the bullet as it leaves the barrel. That's why you get that almost perfect star pattern on the end of a target muzzle from powder and gasses.

And for those who wonder, the BOSS works. At least mine does. My A-Bolt .308 will shoot just as accurately out to 600 yds with 168gr bullets as my friends Remington 700 Heavy varmint rifle. It just heats up quicker after a string of shots, as with any light barrel, and then all bets are off for tight MOA work. That's why it's a hunting rifle and not a bench rifle.

Dave Petzal wrote a good article on sub-MOA accuracy in the July 2008 issue of Field & Stream, but I can't find it online.
The gist of the article was that for a rifle to be accurate, it needs to be as solid as possible at the receiver, the barrel needs to be exactly true to the receiver, the bore axis needs to be square to the barrel, and thus to the receiver, the muzzle needs to be also square, and everything needs to be tight and rigid.....think benchrest rifle.

If anyone finds the article, please post.


Hope that clears up my mis-leadings.

 8)

"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

PegLeg45

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2009, 07:11:48 PM »
And now that I'm done with my 'mater samich, I can say that run a lathe a time or dozen, m25 is right about the vibration.
Like he pointed out with the brake rotor trick.

Think of a tuning fork.
Whack it on something and what happens?
It vibrates at a certain frequency.
Now...wrap a rubber band around the fork and whack it again and see what happens.


And now.....how 'bout another 'mater samich?

 8)
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #35 on: Today at 04:50:02 AM »

fightingquaker13

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2009, 07:14:33 PM »
(that's why I'd never be a teacher because it don't always come out how I mean).
Good Lord Peg! If that was the criteria, I would have been fired long ago. As it is, I have had about 3 discussions with a department head starting with "YOU SAID WHAT"? My response was always "What I was trying to get across was.......". I have been to the corner long before I met M'Lette. ;D Don't sweat it, although the making the barrel longer bit was amusing.
FQ13

Badgersmilk

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2009, 08:47:51 PM »
The M77 has a 26" free floated barrel, & bedded action.   The Limbsaver damper did make a difference.  Huge?  No.  Measurable?  Yes.  At 200 yards (longest range I have access to without a serious drive)



I started with it at the muzzle shooting five shot groups, moved it back aprox. two inches each time I shot another group until I had it all the way back to the stock.  I checked for the best group and then repeated the whole thing a second, and third time to check for consistancy and find the "sweet spot". 

At 200 yards I saw an average of about .230" improvement with the damper where its at over my groups without it on the gun at all.  To be sure I get it back in the same spot in case it gets moved I marked the barrel with a sharpy.  I dont like the way it looks.  But I'm confident it works.

I'm sure a different load in the same gun would need different tuning. 

fightingquaker13

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2009, 08:58:28 PM »
The M77 has a 26" free floated barrel, & bedded action.   The Limbsaver damper did make a difference.  Huge?  No.  Measurable?  Yes.  At 200 yards (longest range I have access to without a serious drive)



I started with it at the muzzle shooting five shot groups, moved it back aprox. two inches each time I shot another group until I had it all the way back to the stock.  I checked for the best group and then repeated the whole thing a second, and third time to check for consistancy and find the "sweet spot".  

At 200 yards I saw an average of about .230" improvement with the damper where its at over my groups without it on the gun at all.  To be sure I get it back in the same spot in case it gets moved I marked the barrel with a sharpy.  I dont like the way it looks.  But I'm confident it works.

I'm sure a different load in the same gun would need different tuning.  
Nice bug out bag Badger. Looks a lot like mine.;D The only difference is that I've got a Saiga AK rather than the AR plus a Maverick 88 security 12 gauge, but M77 and Glock, can't go wrong.
FQ13

Wheelgun Dunn

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2009, 09:25:45 PM »
Well for what it is worth I have a Savage model 10 .204 Ruger that simply would not shoot.  I tried a deresonator on the barrel and after shooting/moving, shooting/moving, etc. I found that sweet spot and the groups are now very tight.  I was really surprised it worked as well as it did.  I think for those who have had bad experiences with the product they did not try it thoroughly enough, i.e. they did not move it up and down the barrel and shoot groups with it.  Remarkable in my case.  Very pleased. Bought another one for my Win model 70 heavy barrel .22-250 to try and settle it down will let you know how it does on that one.  Hope this helps!

Wheelgun

fightingquaker13

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Re: Barrel Harmonics Question RE: Accuracy & Accessories.
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2009, 09:42:39 PM »
Well for what it is worth I have a Savage model 10 .204 Ruger that simply would not shoot.  I tried a deresonator on the barrel and after shooting/moving, shooting/moving, etc. I found that sweet spot and the groups are now very tight.  I was really surprised it worked as well as it did.  I think for those who have had bad experiences with the product they did not try it thoroughly enough, i.e. they did not move it up and down the barrel and shoot groups with it.  Remarkable in my case.  Very pleased. Bought another one for my Win model 70 heavy barrel .22-250 to try and settle it down will let you know how it does on that one.  Hope this helps!

Wheelgun
Could you give us info on brand, price, where to buy etc.? I am very happy with my Ruger M77 .270 (about .75 moa off the bench and minute of bottom of  beer can at 100 yards seated Two out of three anyway, but I scare the crap out it with that third shot). ;D Its the third shot thing thats resonating with me (pardon the pun but I couldn't resist). The first shot is ALWAYS the the most accurate. If sticking an ugly rubber dughnut on the barrel will help, I'm all for it. Hell, the deer won't complain.
FQ13

 

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