Which AR-15 type Black Rifle

[Hazcat]

Hey Snake;

I knew I cold depend on yu to have an M1 Carbine, the most under-rated little gun in the world!

mb

I own an old (bought new in '74) Universal M1 carbine and I love it. If I do my part it will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards.

CMP will be selling M1s in the very near future and I plan on getting one as a "big brother" for my Universal.

Does anyone know which manufacture I should get?  They list several. Here is a link, the list is down the page a bit. http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

Thanks!

[Axehandle]

Colt to invest.  Non Colt to shoot.   The differences are more than "large pin" Colt, and "small pin"  for non Colt.  I hear that the bolt carrier in a Colt is different too...

[someguy]

Which AR to buy?  If you end up with 20 responses, you'll probably end up with 20 different choices.  LOTS to choose from.  I am still fairly new to ARs, but I learned a few things early...

1  New Colts are dramatically overpriced, and not better guns.  Don't bother.  (Ignoring the old collectables; I'm assuming that's not your primary motivation at this point.)

2  If you want immediate gratification, get one built up.  If you can use a buddy's gun a few times to figure out what you like and don't like, you will be better off in the long run ($) to build one up yourself.  Plus, it's a fun project.  I got a stripped RRA lower for $120, and then ordered a lower parts kit from RRA to build it up.  Got a Vltor stock off eBay, and that was that.  So, now I have a complete lower set up and waiting for its upper, which brings me to #3.

3  Caliber - 5.56/.223 is the 'traditional' caliber, and is more plentiful/cheaper than other calibers, although the prices do seem to be rising daily as more stuff goes overseas for use in conflicts...  There's 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and a host of others.  I encourage you to Google this, but I think you get the point here...

4  Gas vs Piston? - If you've researched it this far, no doubt you already know that cleaning a really dirty direct-impengement gun is a rather large pain in the ass.  DI guns are certainly more plentiful, though, and cheaper.  That said, it wasn't long ago that a piston-AR was not much more than a neat idea, and now you've got HK, POF, LWRC (my choice) and Bushmaster making piston uppers, and those are just the ones I'm aware of.  I've heard that Barrett is working on one, too.  Well, where there's smoke, there's fire.  If you're not up to speed on what a piston gun represents, LWRC (lwrifles.com) has a good schematic that outlines the basic processes, and the differences.

Then the more general question:  Why an AR vs any other rifle?  Again, lots of answers, but for me it's this:  If I'm only going to be able to grab one rifle and a bug-out bag on the way out the door if something really bad hits, I need that gun to be as reliable and versatile as possible.  With an adjustable stock, too many rails to count, and a plethera of toys to mount on them, it's hard for me to think there's a better bet out there.  Plus, they are so ubiquitous now, you can get parts damn near anywhere.

How's that for a long-winded response?   

[Bill Stryker]

MB:
 I too am a believer in the M1 Carbine. I carried an M2 in combat. It only jammed once when I was hiding in a hay stack and hay got in the action. Applied immediate action and was back in the fight. If you are watching War on PBS you will be surprised at the number of M1 Carbines GIs are carrying.

Back to HBMan:
I was/am not a real fan of black rifles based on Vietnam bad experience. BUT in keeping with the current trends I went to Camp Perry to buy an other M1 Carbine and to check out all the black rifles that were on Commercial Row -- there were a lot but no SIG, no Stag, and no S&W. I wound up with a Rock River 16" A4 mid length with a stainless steel 1 in 8" 5.56/.233. It is a fun gun. I have iron sights which are not good for my old eyes and have just put a Bushnell Holosight on it that I got from Midway. That tightend the groups right down to near MOA at 100 yards. Since I shoot left handed I had an ambidextrous safety added and am happy to say this rifle does not throw the empties down my shirt!

[DonWorsham]

Speaking of the M1 Carbine...what's the word on new ones from Auto Ordnance? Other than the cost.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_aom110.html

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

Speaking of the M1 Carbine...what's the word on new ones from Auto Ordnance? Other than the cost.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_aom110.html

Why spend that much for a knock off when you can get an original for less?

[DonWorsham]

Why spend that much for a knock off when you can get an original for less?

True, but not everyone can purchase from Camp Perry. The used ones at the local gun show are in the 500's.

[p8riot]

Can't believe that no one has suggested the Dissipator style. I have two, one is an A2, and I just got an A3 upper. IMHO they are probably the best AR setup. You get a carbine length (16") barrel, which lends it self to quick action and the full length rifle sight radius, which gives you just a smidge more accuracy, also the full length handguards will keep you from burning yourself on the barrel, especially if you sling it over your shoulder after putting a few hundred rounds through it. Both of mine have the carbine length gas system so it will handle most any ammo. I have seen a few dissys with a 20" gas system, but from what I've read they are a bit tempermental with some loads. Don't get me wrong, I love my M4, but for out and out comfort, reliability, and accuracy I'll choose the dissipator any day.

[schleider]

I got my first one, a Rock River, this spring.  I bought one of the basic flattops. 

I talked to several people in our local club and decided not to build one for my first Black Rifle.   

We have several people who have built them and you could probably do it a little cheaper but many times it ends up costing more.  There seems to be a tendency to "upgrade" parts.  For example, a standard trigger co X but for $5 more I can get a better trigger.  Well it seems the $5 here and $10 there adds up and the total cost is more than buying the gun outright.  But, it is probably a better gun and you get to say "I built this gun" .  I'm reallt thinking of doing that for my neat one. 

Beware of BRD (black rifle disease)  
There are so many accessories  it's hard to resist adding gadget to it.

Good luck,
Paul

[saltydogbk]

I want to get my first black rifle, but I don't want to sell the farm in order to get it.  Also jamming will put me off on a style of gun faster than grease through a goose.  Right now I'm torn between a S&W M&P , and a Sig 556.  But I could be swayed to 308 as that is a caliber I love.  I need help.....