A very graphic video about driving!!

[fightingquaker13]

That's changed in Fl. but not in a good way. Here the server is held liable. Considering they might have a boss like yours, its totally unfair. The fine should go to the owner, let him police his staff and 86 people who are clearly over the limit and without a DD.
FQ3

[Timothy]

In Michigan in the 80's and even in the early 90's the last time I worked behind the bar, the bar, the server and the bartender got hammered with fines for serving an inebriated person or allowing someone to get so drunk they couldn't drive.  This guy I worked for got fined 21K because he got popped for 21 people sleeping on the bar in a place he owned downtown.

He didn't even fight it, he just paid the fines and kept going.  He owned four or five bars and a fleabag hotel in the city, a real putz...basically a wealthy little prick....

His sister was pretty hot though!  

[tombogan03884]

 The server is held responsible in NH as well, the idea being that the owner may not be present but the server is interacting with the customer.
Alcohol use predates HUMANS, Animals eat half rotted (fermented ) fruit and get hammered  
Watch deer in an orchard next fall  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtPplZnPuMA

[billt]

The whole damn city is drunk most of the time.

Most if not all of our patrons left drunk, every night.

He owned the place to make money and could give a damn if someone didn't get home afterward.

You have just described what is the typical bar, patron, owner, establishment relationship. When you have hundreds of thousands of businesses like this who are in business to sell booze for a profit to more then willing consumers / customers, most, if not all of which drive there, this is about as sure of a recipe for disaster as one could ever hope to create. It would be laughable if it were not so common place. And we expect to somehow stop all of this foolishness with "feel good" remedies that are supposed to somehow absolve us from this monster we have created.

This has been happening since the invention of the automobile. It will continue unabated, regardless of whatever laws we pass, or fines we levy. Nothing irritates me more than total lack of results. There has never been a better example of this than our attempts to try and stop drunk driving. It has all been an abysmal failure. It is almost as annoying as political correctness. A lot to do about nothing.

 I do not support prohibition because, much like gun control it doesn't work, and has proven to not work. Nor have stiffer laws. Arizona has proven this. 14,000 DUI arrests this year as opposed to 10,500 last year. More people drinking more, driving more, and crashing more, and dieing more. I accept the way things are simply because I have no other choice. All we are doing is running in place faster with all of these "methods". We accept alcohol in our society in large amounts. With that alcohol comes the blood, carnage,  and death it causes. I have learned to accept it. It is the way things are, and the way they will continue to be. That is not a defeatist attitude, but rather a realistic one.   Bill T.   

[billt]

Another thing you have to understand is that we as Americans are largely a bunch of power drinkers. In Europe alcohol is treated much differently. Wine is served at meals in most every home, even to adolescents. It can even be purchased by children in some European countries. Alcohol is consumed at lunch at the workplace. All of this takes place in very modest amounts. People don't drink to "get hammered" as so many do here. If they do they are usually in a position where a car is the last thing they use to top off their night, not the first like here. I'm not supporting Europe or condemning us, it's just the way it is in different societies in the world. We associate booze with being macho. Binge drinking happens in every college spring break destination from Daytona Beach to Palm Springs. The results of this is the sad fact most people don't operate machinery very well when they do it.

I don't believe in holding the owner of a bar responsible for what a drunk patron does anymore than I would hold a gun company responsible for what a criminal does with their product. We're all big boys and girls and need to be responsible for our actions.  Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

I don't know about the rest of Europe but when I lived in Iceland in the late 70's they had already implemented a 0.08% blood alcohol limit.  One drink and you were legally intoxicated.  They normally had Icelandic Police on the base sitting in the EM and O Club lots waiting for squids to get in their cars and if they did, they were checked on the spot.

If you got caught, the IP got you before the the MP or Shore Patrol got ya.  You were in a heap of poo poo with the military...

we all took cabs, everywhere...the process worked because the reprocusions were extensive.  Maybe we should make it very painful in the US?

[ratcatcher55]

Loss of your car would be more painful than loss of your driving privilege

[Timothy]

I was at the pharmacy the other evening and the fella parked next to me was driving a big PU with a plow attached.  When he came out of the store, he blew into one of those blowey things to start his car.

Sign of the times.....obviously a repeat offender or someone who's already done his time and out on probation. 

My kid and her boyfriend know that one DWI will basically end their ability to own a firearm in MA.  So far, they are very vigilant and don't drive.  They also have a standing offer from me to come drive them home if they do have too many.  It's been that way since they turned 16.  Their friends have the same offer and my cell number.

[billt]

My kid and her boyfriend know that one DWI will basically end their ability to own a firearm in MA.

How so?  Bill T.

[Timothy]

How so?  Bill T.

It's all it takes.  In MA, you MUST posess a license to carry or firearms ID to own a gun.  The DWI is a disqualifing event.  They figure if you're stupid enough to drive intoxicated than you're not responsible enough to own a firearm.  They're very serious about it and without the license you have to turn in ALL of your guns to the state or you're liable to be charged with a felony gun posession.  You can't even own ammunition anymore.

Lot's of guys who've been busted only hunt with muzzle loaders because they are considered "primitive firearms" and no license is required.  No way around it unless you beat the rap.