Author Topic: Looking for an argument  (Read 7822 times)

tombogan03884

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Looking for an argument
« on: October 22, 2010, 05:00:48 PM »
I recently received a survey from the Heritage Foundation. One of the questions they asked was to name 3 politicians I respected, and why.
I left the answer blank, I could only come up with 2 and I think the answers will at first stun you.
1- Adolf Hitler
2- Rahm Emmanuel

No kidding,
Think about it, first, the question asked about the ones I respected, not necessarily ones I agree with. The most skill application of "the system" regardless of ideology.
Hitler, an Austrian, gained German citizenship for his service in WWI, then lost it, and served 9 months for treason after the failed "Beer Hall Putsch".  He then proceeded to not only regain German citizenship, but also to use the democratic process to gain absolute power , with every step of the journey being carried out with in the legal political frame work, and consistent approval of the voters.
History remembers him as a monster, but he should be given credit as one of, if not the most accomplished political operators" of the 20th Century.

Emmanuel, (and now that I think of it, David Axelrod ) deserves equal recognition for his skill in practicing the art of "politics".
They took an unknown 1st term Senator, who had found it necessary to surrender his Law license , had associates that included, a convicted child molester, who was a ranking member of CPUSA, Frank Marshal Davis, at least 2 domestic terrorist bombers, Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadette Doorn, a convicted racketeer, Tony Rezco, and found it necessary to conceal all his personal information, even his birth certificate from public view , had no genuine accomplishments or experience, and espoused openly Marxist idea's, redistributing the wealth.
They got this guy elected President of the United States !    :o
If that does not qualify them as the most skilled political operators of the 21st century I don't know what would.


OK FQ, Bring it on    ;D

twyacht

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2010, 06:49:11 PM »
In the context you propose, Richard Nixon, aka "Pitbull Of Politics" could qualify,especially in the early days of his Congressional career, as well as Carl Rove getting GWB elected.

Than there was always LBJ, and "the treatment"....



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2010, 06:54:54 PM »
Yes you're a slacker. You forgot Karl Rove, who got a blithering idiot elected. You forgot Alynski. You forgot Atwater and Carville. You forgot perhaps the greatest of them all, Mark Hanna who ginned up the war with Spain and got William McKinley elected in 1896 without the blowhard's "ever leaving his front porch". Emmanuel is good, but not that good. Hitler doesn't qualify because he used violence. That's a whole different sport. Seriously, check out Hanna, if you want a true evil genius.
FQ13

TAB

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 07:03:47 PM »
I'm still looking for one I respect.

Its been hours and I still can't find one.










 :P
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

twyacht

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 07:07:40 PM »
Darth Deadfish Rahm, pales in comparison to Goebells



You think Carl Rove or Rahm is "respectable"?

We can discuss Woodrow Wilson, and his "model" for propaganda, that was "respected" by Goebells further along.... ::)

Respect is a "tricky" word. It involves removing one's personal opinion, and simply looking at a given task with an ultimate end.

The PC folk won't get it., just ask Juan Williams...

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:58:23 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2010, 08:55:34 PM »
Darth Deadfish Rahm, pales in comparison to Goebells



You think Carl Rove or Rahm is "respectable"?

We can discuss Woodrow Wilson, and his "model" for propaganda, that was "respected" by Goebells further along.... ::)

Respect is a "tricky" word. It involves removing one's personal opinion, and simply looking at a given task with an ultimate end.

The PC folk won't get it., just ask Juan Williams...

Exactly my point  TW  ;D

FQ, I'll give you Johnson, he got through everything Kennedy couldn't by being an arm twister. But Alinsky himself never got any one elected, although any one who has an interest in politics should pretty much live by his "Rule's for Radicals".
As for the Spanish war, that was more due to the sensationalism of  Pulitzer and Hearst. Hearst is often quoted as telling Fredrick Remington "You supply the illustrations, I'll supply the war."

Your "Mark Hanna" is not to be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

If any one in government should get credit for, as you put it, "ginning up the war with Spain", it would be a Jr. Asst. Secretary of the Navy who among other steps relocated the US Asiatic squadron to Hong Kong, and got  an aging Commodore named George Dewey appointed to it's command.
As for the rest, Nixon was OK, but he got caught, Lee Atwater, Dana Carville and Carl Rove are just based on your liberal prejudice.
And just what is wrong with political violence ? For a political Science professor you are sure naive.
The trick is knowing when and where to apply violence, Burning the Riechstag just before the election, very smart, New Black panthers in front of polling station, in the day of video and camera phones it is very dumb.

As for you boy Hanna,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hanna

Manager of campaigns

Hanna made a transition into politics during the 1880s, and in 1888, he managed Ohio Senator John Sherman's unsuccessful effort to gain the Republican presidential nomination. Rep. William McKinley had tried unsuccessfully to win the position of Speaker of the House in 1891, losing to Rep. Thomas B. Reed of Maine, who was backed by Theodore Roosevelt. McKinley then turned his attentions to running for governor of Ohio. Hanna helped McKinley win the 1891 and 1893 elections for governor and became his chief advisor.

McKinley's strongest competitor for the Republican nomination in 1896 was Speaker Reed. After Hanna attended a speech Reed gave in Washington, he realized that Reed lacked the presidential appearance or stature McKinley possessed. After McKinley won the 1896 Republican nomination for president, Hanna, as chairman of the Republican National Committee, raised an unprecedented $3.5 million for McKinley's campaign, in which he ran on the gold standard, high tariffs, pluralism, and renewed prosperity. Most of the money came from corporations who feared that William Jennings Bryan's Free Silver policy would limit their economic power. By October the Democrats realized they were losing the battle for campaign funding and targeted Hanna as the arch-villain who threatened to put corporate interests ahead of the national interest.[5] As McKinley was highly likeable, Hanna became a target of Bryan's supporters, especially William Randolph Hearst and his New York Journal.

Hanna's campaign employed 1400 people, who concentrated a flood of pamphlets, leaflets, posters, and stump speakers. McKinley defeated Bryan by an electoral vote of 271 to 176. At the time, it was the most expensive campaign ever in U.S. politics, with the McKinley campaign outspending Bryan's by nearly 12 to 1. Today it is considered the forerunner of the modern political campaign for its adroit use of publicity, its overall national plan, its strategic use of issues, and especially the candidate's own speech making.

Ichiban

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 09:39:42 PM »
Oh, Please!

Don't confuse effectiveness with respect.  Everyone on this list is an asshole who was very effective but they do not deserve respect.  You might be able to appreciate their effectiveness but, if for on second, you actually respect them, then you aren't worth the powder it would take to drop you.  These clowns are the reason there is a need for a hell. 

Respect if reserved for a man like this http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/leebondhus

We will now return you to your regularly scheduled bickering.


fightingquaker13

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 10:10:09 PM »
My point Tom is that Hanna was the founder of the modern campaign :P. Money, endorsements, direct mail, bumper sticker issues, managed media and the like. He pioneered the mess. Three isusses, lots of favors, lots of cash, and a volunteer network. It had never been done that way before.
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jp1

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 10:48:46 PM »
I agree with Ichiban, respect should in no way be extended to manipulating scum that takes advantage of people with misleading physiological B.S., There should only be a special place in hell for them! I reserve respect only for those who display honor, ethics and honesty! If those qualities are not there, then no respect is given!

fightingquaker13

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Re: Looking for an argument
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 10:58:56 PM »
I agree with Ichiban, respect should in no way be extended to manipulating scum that takes advantage of people with misleading physiological B.S., There should only be a special place in hell for them! I reserve respect only for those who display honor, ethics and honesty! If those qualities are not there, then no respect is given!
You are confusing respect with admiration. Admiration is calling a man a role model. Respect is acknowledging his talents. Two different things.
FQ13

 

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