No FFL 80% Polymer Lowers

[PegLeg45]

Heck, even Sportsman's Guide has unfinished lowers in stock.... just got a catalog for Spring and it had one in there.

Funny thing is the jig to machine it costs more than the lower. 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/80-ar-15-lower-receiver.aspx?a=1561586

[tombogan03884]

I think you're wrong Solus, and its a hell of a thing to be wrong about as it can buy you a free vacation in club fed. I'll do some looking and post back.

FQ, After years in the business I can tell you that if the holes ain't drilled it ain't a gun, ergo, ATF don't care.

[billt]

The biggest problem I see with these isn't that they're made of Polymer, but rather many of them will be butchered by shade tree machinists when they try to complete them. People who are buying rifles made with these things will be purchasing a crap shoot. It's enough of a risk to purchase a kitchen table build off some mall ninja, who knows barely enough to be dangerous. When you're investing this kind of money in a weapon, you want some type of guarantee as to what you're actually getting, so you'll have some peace of mind as to reliability. This isn't it.

If you're a knowledgeable machinist who has access to an automated machine shop with the proper tooling, fixturing, and programming software, that's one thing. But that is most likely less than 10% of who will end up buying these lowers. Mostly it's people who want to skirt the law in some way, shape, or form.

[PegLeg45]

The biggest problem I see with these isn't that they're made of Polymer, but rather many of them will be butchered by shade tree machinists when they try to complete them. People who are buying rifles made with these things will be purchasing a crap shoot. It's enough of a risk to purchase a kitchen table build off some mall ninja, who knows barely enough to be dangerous. When you're investing this kind of money in a weapon, you want some type of guarantee as to what you're actually getting, so you'll have some peace of mind as to reliability. This isn't it.

If you're a knowledgeable machinist who has access to an automated machine shop with the proper tooling, fixturing, and programming software, that's one thing. But that is most likely less than 10% of who will end up buying these lowers. Mostly it's people who want to skirt the law in some way, shape, or form.

You are correct on the 'shade-tree' thing.

The thing is, these are not supposed to be sold once made into a working lower, unless registered with the BATFE with a serial number as a licensed manufacturer would do.
It is not illegal to BUILD your own gun, you just aren't SUPPOSED to SELL it once built (if I understand the regulations correctly).
Legally, the person building the rifle is the end owner.


I know that doesn't mean they aren't sold by people outside the law, so I am not disagreeing with what you are saying.

[billt]

IIRC you can also purchase "80%" Aluminum lowers as well. These would require even more precise fixturing and cutting to complete per Mil-Spec. While Aluminum machines easily compared to steel, it is substantially more difficult to cut than Polymer. Especially if it is forged T-7075. Some of that stuff is pretty tough and abrasive on tooling.

[Sponsor]

[Magoo541]

IIRC you can also purchase "80%" Aluminum lowers as well. These would require even more precise fixturing and cutting to complete per Mil-Spec. While Aluminum machines easily compared to steel, it is substantially more difficult to cut than Polymer. Especially if it is forged T-7075. Some of that stuff is pretty tough and abrasive on tooling.

You can buy these from a quite a few places.  You can also buy 0% and make them from scratch.  I posted a tutorial in the Builders Forum and you can use part of that to do the last 20% on the 80% lowers.  I am one of the "lucky ones" that has or has access to a mill/lathe and the tooling/abilities to do all the work myself.  It isn't easy taking the 0% to 100% and I would suggest doing the 80%, the value in the machining already done is HUGE.

[PegLeg45]

IIRC you can also purchase "80%" Aluminum lowers as well. These would require even more precise fixturing and cutting to complete per Mil-Spec. While Aluminum machines easily compared to steel, it is substantially more difficult to cut than Polymer. Especially if it is forged T-7075. Some of that stuff is pretty tough and abrasive on tooling.

I worked in the aluminum industry for nearly twenty years......to be such a 'soft' metal, it can be a PITA.
Some aluminum alloys can be extremely rough on tooling.....aluminum oxide is used as an abrasive in many applications.

[PegLeg45]

Just saw this article posted on FB on a gun page.......interesting.

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/gun-store-owner-halts-federal-raid/#6Z6BoExdrRpxQWKd.01

The owner of an Oceanside store that sells various gun parts to build a rifle from scratch refused to turn over his customer list to federal agents.
Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor, said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents were investigating their business, not for what they sell, but for the people who purchase their products.

Karras said the ATF threatened to shutter their business if they didn’t hand over the names of 5,000 customers who have purchased an 80 percent lower receiver (the base) for building an AR-15.

It is legal to build a rifle from scratch without serial numbers only if the base is manufactured to ATF specifications.  The base is not considered a firearm if it’s sold separately.

A manufacturer made an 80 percent receiver in plastic with a different material and colors which show exactly where the customer can drill making it easier and cheaper to build.  The ATF said it is illegal.

The ATF sent stores, including Ares Armor, letters demanding they turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them.

“They said either give us these 5000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do,” said Karras.

Karras’s attorney informed the ATF to pick up the receivers Wednesday morning at their Oceanside location, but the inventory was not the issue. The store owner said he will not comply with turning over their private client list.

“They were going to search all of our facilities and confiscate our computer and pretty much shut our business down,” said Karras.  “The government invades our privacy on a daily basis and everyone thinks its ok. This is one of those situations where hopefully the governmental institutions will come in say this is protected and no you’re not taking it from them.”

In anticipation of a raid, they filed a temporary restraining order against the ATF, stopping them from confiscating their property, Karras said.  The ATF has a certain amount of time to respond. If the two parties do not reach a compromise, they will be in court for a preliminary hearing March 20.

[billt]

Because of their very controlling nature, I doubt the ATF is going to let this "80%" lower business continue much longer. Especially when you consider how the whole concept is gaining in popularity. People don't want the government to know their business, or what they have. The government wants to know and control as much as they possibly can. They don't like or want any part of this. All that remains is for a major crime or shooting to take place with one of these weapons, and the ability to purchase untraceable receivers will be gone.

I've said much the same about Tannerite. As soon as some whack job blows something or someone up with the stuff, it will disappear faster than toilet paper after a Cholera outbreak. Then we'll have to listen to the MSM harp on about, "How could they let such dangerous material be sold to the general public without any traceability?" I think the reason both of these are still available is because the uber liberal MSM is too ignorant to even report on their existence. They've got enough trouble understanding 30 round magazines do not come pre loaded with ammunition. 

[Solus]

I've never understood the emphasis on tracking the receiver.

If you want to shoot someone with your 45ACP, get an after market barrel.  Nothing at the scene of the shooting can connect it to your receiver.

Even if micro stamping is implemented, there is still noting at the scene to link to your receiver.  Might have to dump the slide and the barrel to be "clean", but the receiver is clear.

If you police your brass, the bullet and some powder residue is all that might be at the scene and the bullet is identified by markings from the barrel. 

There was talk of "taggants"  in the powder but I don't think it went anywhere and there are so many ways to muddy that trail, it would be useless.

Not hard for any criminal to minimize or eliminate any risk from all this.....but then, we've known for a long time that hindering the criminal is not the objective of any gun control measures.